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I'm having trouble understanding your drawings.

Let's start with a clean slate.  Assuming that you are not using this like a paring knife, you need a handle  that you can hold on to.  Generally this is between 3.75 inches and about 5 inches (95 mm to 127mm).  If you measure across your palm, that measurement plus about .5 inches  (12.7 mm) is a good handle length.

Given that, how much blade length do you want?

Thinking about what you've said, is this what you're looking for?

 

See the source image

 

Don't worry about your time away from contacting me, I'm patient and have time to spend.

 

Geoff

Edited by Geoff Keyes
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This is most elaborate trolling ever.

I have some comments on this subject, but I'm going to leave it for later.  I was in a car accident a few hours ago and I got my bell rung.  I'm fine, the other person is fine, our car is totaled.  Mo

Don’t know much about Philippine bolos, but with a quick internet search I came up with this... Do with it whatever you want  I added the cutout as a slight artistic flair. Blade is 13 inches long (I

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Hello Geoff,

As to the design, the type of blade I am looking for is basically the same as a "buster sword" from final fantasy, i.e.Final Fantasy "Buster Sword"

and the only differences would be that the "hilt" of the dagger would be part of the blade as I drew in my sketch and as refered to on the top half of the blade in the image below, ben-armitage-3_1_1.jpg

and that the blade would be wider near the tip than at the base (was unable to find a suitable image that shows what Im saying), for example (using one inch as a reference measurement), near the tip the blade would be a full inch and near the hilt the blade would taper to about 2/3 of an inch (i.e. a little top heavy).

I'll try and attach another sketch in a moment that (hopefully) is a bit easier to understand.

As for the length of the blade, I'd prefer the overall length of the piece to be about 10 inches, definitely no longer than 1 foot though. As for the handle, call it about 4.3-4.4 inches.

One other thing, I may have said this already, but I'd like this blade to be made with whichever metal can hold an edge the longest when under moderate use.

Edited by Chaim
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I was sitting here trying to make sense of this, and I drew this? Is this remotely what you are thinking Chaim? The blade is 10 inches, handle is about 5.5 inches. Almost 2 inches wide at the tip, about 1 inch wide at the base.

6BE61F7E-D08B-42E2-AC71-80F1591EFEF9.jpeg

Another try at trying to understand the “sharp” parts on the guard? Not sure not he edge geometry, and I’ve never been a huge Han of the geometric grind lines, but this is what I came up with after looking at your drawings: 

 

1AA544E7-E2F3-4D92-A677-E51AE40CABB7.jpeg

Not sure how you would make the back of the “Hilt” sharp, but maybe a false edge for most of the spine? I’ll let Geoff worry about those details ;)

Edited by Adam Weller
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Yeah, I think I'm out on this one.  I thought I understood where we were headed, but you and I are clearly not on the same page.  It's been interesting and I wish you luck finding someone to do this for you.

 

Geoff

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22 minutes ago, Jaro Petrina said:

This is most elaborate trolling ever.

I was kinda wondering about that one myself :rolleyes: but hey, I was bored and just trying to make sense of the conversation so far...

Edited by Adam Weller
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Wow...did this ever take a hard turn. From survival knife to something based off fantasy blades.  His concept pictures look like no survival knife I ever saw. Geoff's blade was more than adequate for survival. I do like Adam's handle in his pictures. If Adam doesn't mind I'd  like to borrow that concept for the curved handle. Glad I followed this. I learned alot about customers and customer relations. 

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6 minutes ago, vlegski said:

Wow...did this ever take a hard turn. From survival knife to something based off fantasy blades.  His concept pictures look like no survival knife I ever saw. Geoff's blade was more than adequate for survival. I do like Adam's handle in his pictures. If Adam doesn't mind I'd  like to borrow that concept for the curved handle. Glad I followed this. I learned alot about customers and customer relations. 

Go for it, it took me all of about 3 minutes :D I was just going for the most utilitarian cord wrapped handle. 

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4 hours ago, vlegski said:

Thank you. I've got a nephew that might like a phillipine bolo with that style handle.

B2878545-8419-4F38-9868-F91ECD879514.jpeg

Don’t know much about Philippine bolos, but with a quick internet search I came up with this... Do with it whatever you want :P I added the cutout as a slight artistic flair. Blade is 13 inches long (I draw it on a grid so I can keep sizes somewhat relative).

 

BTW, not trying to highjack the thread... I was just curious this morning trying to figure out how this was going to play out and it’s easy to throw designs on paper, not quite as easy making them out of metal of course!

 

Edited by Adam Weller
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Nice design. Flows pretty much from the old Air Force jungle survival  school negritos  blades and the navy's JEST design. But like you say we are getting away from threads purpose. I really would liked to have seen what Geoff ended up making. 

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To all who think I'm just, as you put it, "trolling", let me ask you this: If you were discussing something on a forum that you've never even thought about, let alone dealt with before, and someone came along and had the audacity to say "he's just screwing with you, don't let him waste your time" or something similar, how would you appreciate that?

Geoff has been kind enough to be patient with me in trying to figure out what the design of the blade I want is, and I really appreciate all the help and time he has spent with my incessant questions.

As someone who has never tried to design a custom blade nor even thought about what would or would not be good for him, if it seems like I'm just being a jerk with all the strange questions, that was not at all my intention and I apologize. I also admit that when I started asking questions, I should have been more specific in saying that this is my first time trying to design a blade and that I have no idea what I'm doing.

I am simply trying to figure out what kind of blade would work best for me, and if the people here don't want to help me because I'm such a novice, then so be it, I won't hold it against anyone.

With that in mind, I'd greatly appreciate it if the people on this forum would simply tell me if they do not want or have time to work with me to figure this out. I'm simply the kind of guy who likes to get all his facts straight and make an informed decision, nothing more.

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On 3/21/2021 at 7:05 PM, Adam Weller said:

I was sitting here trying to make sense of this, and I drew this? Is this remotely what you are thinking Chaim? The blade is 10 inches, handle is about 5.5 inches. Almost 2 inches wide at the tip, about 1 inch wide at the base.

6BE61F7E-D08B-42E2-AC71-80F1591EFEF9.jpeg

Another try at trying to understand the “sharp” parts on the guard? Not sure not he edge geometry, and I’ve never been a huge Han of the geometric grind lines, but this is what I came up with after looking at your drawings: 

 

1AA544E7-E2F3-4D92-A677-E51AE40CABB7.jpeg

Not sure how you would make the back of the “Hilt” sharp, but maybe a false edge for most of the spine? I’ll let Geoff worry about those details ;)

To answer your question, the second drawing is more like what I'm looking for, but with the 'two inches at the top and one near the handle' type of blade.

As for the "sharp" part of the hilt, I'm simply looking to have a very small part of the blade near the handle made sharp, maybe 3/4 of an inch. But seeing as it is difficult for me to properly explain what it is that I would like, that part can be skipped. No worries, it isn't a problem to skip it.

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Don't worry to much about the "trolling" comments, I think most of us are somewhat gun shy from other forums and are avid defenders of the this site because we don't have a lot of that kind of thing going on. Just know your going to get into that as soon as you bring up "final fantasy" or skyrim or even Lord of the rings type stuff, because it is very common for people unfamiliar with knives to use those as examples of "the perfect knife" when those of us that have dealt with knives over the years know that 99% of the examples from those sources are not utilitarian in the least. 

 

In regards to your design, I don't mind editing my drawings, that's one of my favorite parts - so I'll keep trying when I have a spare minute or two. I'm probably not the guy to make it though as I tend to spend hours carving little details into my stuff rather than making large utilitarian knives. do you want the guard curved like I did in the first drawing or angled like in the second drawing? Do you want the handle straight like in the second one or curved like in the first one? Is the small sharpened part near the handle just the 3/4" piece of the spine or are you thinking a "guthook/rope cutter" type thing? Do you want the sharpened part on the guard itself or on the spine? 

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Just to be clear, I don't think you were trolling, but you have been unclear (at least to me) what you're after and what you want to use it for.  I build working blades, but with high end details and finishes.  I will sometimes make blades that have forged or acid etched finishes, but I don't put less time into them or charge less for them.

So let us try this again.  Don't worry about materials, I won't short change you there.  I only work in quality, known steels, unless there is a good reason not to.  Like you have some emotional attachment to a piece of junk because it belonged to someone important to you.

I don't like the cutting edges near your hand, and if you think about the mechanics of swinging a thing like this, it would really suck to get your off hand or your leg into the path of a pointy bit just in front of your hand.  I look at old blades designed for combat and you never see stuff like that.  Why?  Because when your life is on the line, you don't want to be your own worst enemy.

3b29ce82-2324-44fd-a03c-21c3870d7cae.jpg

 

This is a Dha, square end, often wider at the tip than at the heel.

What is this thing meant to do, what are you actually going to use it for?

What you said was  "As for what Im looking for, Id like a full tang knife with an overall length of 8 to 10 inches and made with a metal that would be able to take a lot of punishment."

Now we are at  "As for the length of the blade, I'd prefer the overall length of the piece to be about 10 inches, definitely no longer than 1 foot though. As for the handle, call it about 4.3-4.4 inches."

 

Which is it?

 

Geoff

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Had a minute before dinner.

 

I would love to hear what this thing is going to be used for as well. It always helps with making the design.

 

Is this at all what you are thinking? 10 inch blade, 5 inch handle, 2 inches wide at the tip, 1 inch wide at the base. This reminds me of a Japanese Nata Tool. I figured I could add the sharp part on the spine later after I figure out what you want. 

 

D870CF25-6C26-4AA3-8AD8-ED77F131DCFD.jpeg

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Adam Weller said:

Had a minute before dinner.

 

I would love to hear what this thing is going to be used for as well. It always helps with making the design.

 

Is this at all what you are thinking? 10 inch blade, 5 inch handle, 2 inches wide at the tip, 1 inch wide at the base. This reminds me of a Japanese Nata Tool. I figured I could add the sharp part on the spine later after I figure out what you want. 

 

D870CF25-6C26-4AA3-8AD8-ED77F131DCFD.jpeg

 

 

 

Hey all, sorry about my little rant at those calling me a troll. I've simply had some bad experience on forums and didn't want to have it continue here.

Adam - The drawing above is exactly what I'm looking for, with one minor difference. First though, as I'm not sure what the terminology of these things are, I'll try to explain as best I can. The first difference is the "sharpened part" of the blade to be more narrow twords the handle. I've also attached an edited copy of the drawing above that will hopefully help explain what I am trying to say a bit more clearly.

As for the rope cutter/gut hook (or whatever they are called) I think I'm going to forgo that part as per Geoff's suggestion, although I did add a little illustration to the attached image I edited that will (hopefully) make it a little clearer on what I was thinking.

Geoff - This blade will be used as a defensive weapon in the streets as I live in a rather rough neighborhood and I'd rather be safe than sorry. That said, I don't go out looking for fights, but I'd prefer to have a functional knife for defense rather than go out completely unarmed. As for the length, the first blade I was looking for was the 8 to 10 inch blade that could take a lot of punishment. The blade I am looking for now is the second set of measurements that I posted, i.e. "the overall length of the piece to be about 10 inches, definitely no longer than 1 foot though. As for the handle, call it about 4.3-4.4 inches." However, I'd like to make a small adjustment to the handle measurements, instead of 4.3 to 4.4 inches, I'd like it to be 4.7  inches.

In short, I'd like a 10 inch piece with a 4.7 inch handle that has the design in the images on this post.1616498147276.jpg

One last thing, Adam, do you make fine details and designs on knives and blades? If you do, would it be okay if Geoff sent the finished blade to you and you did the detail work I'm looking for? Also, if you do this, how much would you charge?

Thanks again to all who have been so patient with me.

All the best and stay healthy!

Chaim

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Well, here is were fantasy blades and functional blades do not get along... What you are describing does not have the edge geometry you need to have a functional knife. By the time the blade edge reaches the guard area (and the tip) there would basically be no “blade” to sharpen. I drew the cross section of the blade below at each level of the blade so you can get an idea what the angles of the bevel are doing and why you basically don’t have a blade as you approach the handle. Hope that makes sense. 

 

412E7E13-4793-44B9-97CC-BC24F16F5D2E.jpeg

 

 

I don’t do engraving work on metal as of yet, I do more wood/antler/bone carving on stuff and I really only dabble in it at that, given my real job and family takes precedence. 

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Adam - No problem, I understand completely about both family and a job.

In regards to the blade, I see what you mean. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of the blade being weaker near the handle because there would be less metal to support the blade if it was thinner. That said, does it actually matter that much in terms of strength near the handle with a blade that is wider at the tip than near the handle?

Whether it makes a difference or not is just my curiosity speaking.

With all the new (to me) information that I have learned about blades from all of you, I'm going to take a much simpler approach.

I'm just going to ask for a simple blade like the one shown in this picture (without all the writing and without the black coating on the blade);51w4liY0nGL._AC_SX679_.jpg

41fozianSOL._AC_SL1024_.jpgGeoff - In terms of the handle, would you be able to make a handle like the one shown above where the sheath is flush with the hilt? (or maybe it's called a guard, I'm not sure. The piece of material that separates the blade from the handle).

I apologize for changing my mind so many times, but as I said before, I'm new to this whole smithing and forging thing.

Thank you and stay healthy!

Chaim

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To butt in for a second, that looks like yet another fantasy/video game knife.  That's why people thought you might be trolling, those are universally bad designs for actual working knives.  Even mentioning a "buster" sword (other than with ridicule) is enough to get you kicked off many forums. 

 

This particular knife would be a poor cutter because of the very short bevels.  Within reason, any good modern steel will be more than strong enough with the correct edge geometry.  L6 would be a good steel choice for what you have specified regarding temperature and strength requirements.  It works fine at either end of the temperature range well past the point where you'd be dead or ineffective, at any rate.  

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To second what Alan said, I can draw cool looking stuff all day, but even as I was drawing, I was unable to come up with a good function for any of the designs I drew above (except the bolo which has a well proved history of function). They would not be very good for anything, much less self defense. This also brings up another issue at play here which is the fact that most custom blade makers are going to be pretty hesitant to make a blade with their name on it that is going to end up on the street or eventually in an evidence locker somewhere. Just my opinion. 

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On 3/24/2021 at 8:39 AM, Adam Weller said:

To second what Alan said, I can draw cool looking stuff all day, but even as I was drawing, I was unable to come up with a good function for any of the designs I drew above (except the bolo which has a well proved history of function). They would not be very good for anything, much less self defense. This also brings up another issue at play here which is the fact that most custom blade makers are going to be pretty hesitant to make a blade with their name on it that is going to end up on the street or eventually in an evidence locker somewhere. Just my opinion. 

I agree and having been asked to make a pair of "fighting knives" I second the reluctance (refusal) to be involved in such a project. 

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I have some comments on this subject, but I'm going to leave it for later.  I was in a car accident a few hours ago and I got my bell rung.  I'm fine, the other person is fine, our car is totaled.  More later when I'm tracking better

 

g

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16 hours ago, Garry Keown said:

I agree and having been asked to make a pair of "fighting knives" I second the reluctance (refusal) to be involved in such a project. 

charge more for fighting knives i find theirs a price point to knives actually used to "fight" and ones labeled as such and looked on fondly

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