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This will be my first year participating in KITH, I'm excited and nervous. Hopefully I can produce something good enough to stand along side the rest of you guys. :)

 

Since I think I'm the only one who voted for the Spear option this year, it seemed only right to perhaps attempt a combination of a spear using 1 cubic inch of material!  I took Immediately to Anne Jorgensen's book "Waffen und Graber" for general measurements that might equal around a cubic inch, and found the L2 and L4 seemed to hit the mark. 
 

I settled on an L4 for my first attempt since it seemed a simpler shape and this is my first attempt at a spear.  Being that this is KITH, and I'd like to get better at it, I decided to make a forge-weld another variant in the build.

 

2 Weeks ago I ventured forward!  Starting Dimensions are 2 pieces of 2"L x 1/4"Th x 1"W

gotlandic spearhead13.jpg        gotlandic spearhead(1).jpg     gotlandic spearhead4.jpg

 

gotlandic spearhead5.jpg    gotlandic spearhead6.jpg     gotlandic spearhead8.jpg

 

The first attempt seemed to go fairly smooth, except for some failed welds on the last half of the weld-site.  When I practiced with Clay this was also the case, so I'll have to see if I can't figure out how to improve that.  You can see the excess space towards the bottom of the weld a little here:

 gotlandic spearhead10.jpg

 

I'd like to not present a piece with flawed welds for my first KITH, so I finished it with 120G and a long ferric bath to give it some feeling of finality. This one will stay with me on the shelf of learning.  But because this was such a near success I'll be continuing on this thread of a small spear/javelin head in hopes that I can figure out a way to make this work! :D 

FINISHED GOTLANDIC SPEARHEAD.jpg

 


Hopefully this wasn't too long-winded for a KITH thread..>_>

Edited by Jaron Martindale
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Posted (edited)

The second one I went with a find as listed in an article Maciek Tomaszczyk posted up in his ever-inspiring Pattern-Welded Spear thread!  It's based on the #47 spear head, and I added some fun to it by doing a 3 piece "multi-bar" approach with a fish-mouth weld!:D   
starting dimension were 3" x 3/8" x 1" (with a taper at the tip,so I kinda guestimated the 1 cubic inch value...)

The 2nd attempt was better at reaching the desired dimensions, but it got too dark and I ran out of fuel towards the end and was an idiot and worked the forge-welded Wrought-Iron section of the socket far too cold and split and mangled it...:wacko:  Lessons learned I suppose.

IMG_5493.jpg  IMG_5495.jpg  IMG_5500.jpg

 

IMG_5502.jpg  IMG_5503.jpg

 

FINISHED CAT.47.jpg  Lednick Lake find CAT 47.PNG

 

I still have some material left so this next week or so I may give this design another shot, or I may switch it up again!  Gotta come out right sometime right??

Edited by Jaron Martindale
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I'm guessing here.  Did you when welding, drive the pointed end into the V, as you would if doing a cleft weld. Also, what was the difference in carbon between the two pieces?

 

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5 hours ago, Jaron Martindale said:

so I'll have to see if I can't figure out how to improve that.

That's a tough weld to do well.  If you haven't already paid attention to making sure the pre-weld shapes fit like the green and black, you'll almost always get an un-welded portion if the pre-weld fits like the red.

Untitled.jpg

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8 hours ago, Gerald Boggs said:

 

I'm guessing here.  Did you when welding, drive the pointed end into the V, as you would if doing a cleft weld. Also, what was the difference in carbon between the two pieces?

 

I did drive the point in first and essentially try to weld from the tip back. The socket is Wrought Iron and the blade is shear steel from a wagon/buggy leaf spring I got at a garage sale.

 

5 hours ago, billyO said:

making sure the pre-weld shapes fit like the green and black

Thanks Billy! This was my first time trying a weld like this so I had no idea what shapes I was going for prior to welding...:wacko:  I’ll be sure to keep this in mind next time I try this weld!

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Re-looking at the first photos of the first spear, it looks like you had a gouge in the tip and that might be the cause of why it doesn't look completely welded.  Am I seeing correctly?

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2 hours ago, Gerald Boggs said:

Re-looking at the first photos of the first spear, it looks like you had a gouge in the tip and that might be the cause of why it doesn't look completely welded.  Am I seeing correctly?

 

yeah, that's correct.  The tip actually welded up relatively well other than that small indent you're seeing, it was mostly the "tabs" of the spear head that I struggled to weld and keep attached. I'll definitely be paying closer attention to my prep work prior to welding this next go around.

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15 hours ago, Jaron Martindale said:

I did drive the point in first

 

Did you do that at welding heat?  On this kind of weld you absolutely have to do that as the first weld.  I do it in a V-groove on my swage block, but anything that will hold the blade while you drive the socket in will help.  

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Alan: Initially I heated both pieces individually and drove them together at orange/red hot thinking it would help seat the metal, and applied a liberal amount of flux thinking this might help “glue” the pieces together. Then I brought it up to welding temp and drove the point in. I did that twice before I started working the weld back, with cleaning and fluxing in-betweens. I have a square hardy-hole tool I put in so I could hammer against that to set the welds since I don’t yet have a swage block.(a long time dream though:lol:)

 

Gerald: I have a buddy I may be able to drag out with me to help me than...:ph34r:

 

 

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These are a neat idea and I like both of them.

 

Thinking about your first piece, I wonder if the tip of the socket material were slightly thicker than the blade material if it would help the weld. Essentially, let the tip get thicker as you point the piece instead of flattening it back down to the original thickness.

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I like that idea a lot Bob, thank you!
I'm thinking I'd like to stick with the first form of weld, its much easier in the prep and time realm than stacking bars...:P I'm not sure which shape I'll keep, I like them both, so I'll have to see which shape is easier regarding the material constraints.

I'll also be replacing my HF anvil shaped piece of cast iron within the next week or so, so once I have him all mounted up I'll be out there making an armory of spears until I get this one right!
I'll be sure to post a picture of progress:D
 

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I just had another thought. In addition to letting the to get thicker, slightly fish mouth the point so that the flats overlap the steel. They'll essentially be weeks scarfs and help you seal that area up. Makes me wish I had a forge I could weld in.

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4 hours ago, Bob Ouellette said:

Makes me wish I had a forge I could weld in.

Do you have a blower? You could always make a solid fuel forge out of a box of dirt like Gerald Boggs did.

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On 3/16/2021 at 1:05 PM, Joshua States said:

Do you have a blower? You could always make a solid fuel forge out of a box of dirt like Gerald Boggs did.

My lungs can't handle solid fuel anymore. I sold my coal forge and I'm working on building a new gas forge.

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On 3/16/2021 at 10:15 AM, Gerald Boggs said:

You make it sound so unattractive :-)    I prefer to think of it as a British military style portable forge.

I'm just using the words you used to describe it.  :D

I think it's brilliant BTW.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

I suppose I Should be posting progress instead of more failures, but in the spirit of learning and experience, here is a quick "update" :

2 more failures and a "so-far" success!  

The first one I thought was going to be a success of the first version. 
Spearhead fail start.jpg  Far fewer gaps, although not entirely smooth. 
The weld seemed to take, and things seemed to be going smooth, until it wasn't...

Spearhead fail melt.jpg  I over heated the steel trying to tack the delams back together.....:wacko:

 

The second failure is on the left here. 

Spearhead fail2 crumble.jpg  Same dealio: overheated trying to set the welds properly.

mental note: do not practice welding mild steel DIRECTLY before welding w/ high carbon steel......:rolleyes:

 

 

On the Plus side though!  In the Spirit of learning to forge-weld, which was a major goal for this project, I started teaching myself how to do that drop-tong(s)((?)) / lap(??)..weld..dealio..lol!:lol:  Half for learning purposes and half thinking maybe that would provide a stronger weld.

Lap weld 2.jpg  So far this one has stuck, and I'll be working out the profile and socket next week. :) 
 

Edited by Jaron Martindale
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Good luck! What did you differently with your welds?

 

Also, I was rereading your initial post and thinking of how to make all the weld seams hold better.  Have you thought of forging a very thin, short scarf on the ends of the two steel wings? Not enough to add mass, but enough to help get the very ends to close.  I'll draw a picture of what I'm thinking and post it in a little while.

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Here we go. I've even made a few notes about how I'd go about forging the shapes (feel free to disregard if they don't work for you!) I think setting the edges first might work out best, but I can't experiment to find out at the moment.

 

PXL_20210501_032542900_copy_1612x1209.jpg

 

PXL_20210501_032547483_copy_1612x1209.jpg

 

PXL_20210501_032554935_copy_1612x1209.jpg

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I had not thought about that yet!  that seems like a good logical solution to the issue of those ends not quite closing all the way..

I also noticed in Billyo's drawing the ends of the split piece were tapered down, and I thought maybe I should try that as well!

This next week I'll give a few different versions of this weld a shot along with playing with the lap-weld version, see if I can't apply all this knowledge you wonderful people are giving me!:D

 

To be honest, I'm kind of enjoying amassing this cool little collection of small pieces of welds and sometimes spearheads.  Like a little exhibit of progress :lol:

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1 hour ago, Jaron Martindale said:

Like a little exhibit of progress :lol:

 

That, sir, is the right attitude for this business! B)

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Posted (edited)
On 5/1/2021 at 7:32 AM, Jaron Martindale said:

This next week I'll give a few different versions of this weld a shot along with playing with the lap-weld version, see if I can't apply all this knowledge you wonderful people are giving me! :D

 

I can't wait to see it! I'll be the first to admit, I didn't develop any of the knowledge on my own and keeping it to myself doesn't help anyone ;)

Edited by Bob Ouellette
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