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Another canister question


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Good morning all. It seems as if this is canister season.

I've been reading in other posts how small amounts of what I would have called 'contaminants' don't seem to be that much of an issue, because they burn up and use any oxygen that might be left in the can. I'm trying to mimic a starry night sky in my designs and would like to try using a tiny amount of 15N20 swarf/saw dust from using a hacksaw mixed in with 1084 powder to be the diamonds in the sky. I also recently tried sprinkling some on a piece of 1080 and using my TIG torch to melt these into the bar to see if this makes any cool pattern. One thing I noticed while doing this was some of the swarf burned off instead of melting, and I think this was some of the paint/powder-coating from the hacksaw blade in the sawdust.
My question is: will this paint contamination lead to bad inclusions/welds/pockets in the finished billet or will this just burn off like paper does?
Thanks and stay safe!

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My feeling is that it will just burn off, with maybe some surface staining from the pigments in the paint that will grind off easily enough.  I don't 100% guarantee that, but I strongly suspect it.

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I've put a rusty slightly dirty cable into a canister and had that work fine. If you knew in advance you were going to be using shavings from a hacksaw maybe strip the paint off. White paint could be a problem. I tried doing meteors with meteorite shavings in a canister didn't work out like I wanted but I may try it again

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1 hour ago, Gilbert McCann said:

If you knew in advance you were going to be using shavings from a hacksaw maybe strip the paint off.

I tried, but on the lenox blades that I currently have, it seems to be some sort of powder coating that doesn't react to any of the solvents I had on hand and seems like it will take a wire wheel to get it of.  I'm also thinking that perhaps getting a coarse bastard file and making chips with that to use.  

Anyone know if there are any non-painted decent hacksaw blades out there?

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The only concern that comes to mind is that the base of many paints is titanium dioxide which is what we use to keep the welded billet from sticking to the canister in the first place.

Edited by Brian Dougherty
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Billy. I haven't had much luck getting small details in my canisters. They tended to wash out as I Drew out the billet.   So this is a Wag. Maybe try cutting small pieces, like slivers or rods of 15n20and scatter them heavily through your canister where you want the stars to be. 

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I'm thinking that the material may be too small to give you any detail.  Assuming that you can get a weld, by the time it's a solid mass, it will be pretty homogenous.  In the early 2000's Jon Christensen did a hunter with a blade made of lathe swarf.  It looked like maple leaves.

 

What other things might give you what you want?  Ball bearings, star washers, nuts?  I'm just kicking the idea around.

 

Geoff

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49 minutes ago, Geoff Keyes said:

I'm thinking that the material may be too small to give you any detail. 

This seems to be the consensus across forums, but I don't really need any detail.  Just distinct little spots of nickel(15N20) in a homogenous dark piece of 1084.   But finding the right size and amount of 15N20 swarf, filings, etc. is most certainly the key here.

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Look for nickel wire. We have a local industry that makes music wire. Alan may know more about them. Looks like they are still in business https://www.mapesstrings.com . Way back when things were different I was able to get a small roll of fine nickel wire from them. We used it in damascus but I can't remember exactly how. I kinda remember the nickel was used to wrap the actual strings, like the big string on a guitar maybe. 30 years ago it was easier to just walk in a place and ask for something than it is now.

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Thanks for the link.  I looked at it briefly, but what I saw was a lot of nickel plated strings.  

I know there are places that sell wire, so that's a thought, cutting lengths the width of the can.  I have a lot of small 15N20 pieces that I was hoping i could just grind down.  

I'm also considering picking up a metal rasp to use for larger pieces instead of my bastard cut files.

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If you go to their specialty wire page, they do have a "contact us" page where you can ask for a specific alloy and price quote.  I've never been inside, but I know where they are.  If you contact them and they say "well, we have a barrel of nickel wire drops out back" I'll be happy to go pick 'em up and ship them to you if they don't want to.  It's only about 10 miles from me.  Maybe five from Matt, but with twistier roads. 

 

https://www.mapeswire.com/specialty-wire/  On their "history" page they say they do aerospace alloys and other exotics. Ask for Nickel 200 (pure Ni), Nickel 400 (Monel), 15N20, L6, 8670, or just non-specific nickel wire, not nickel plate.  I bet they have some form of it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well here's the update and result of my first attempt, both with a can and the technique.  Original can was 1 1/4" square filled with 1:20 ratio of 15N20 hacksaw savings to 1084 powder and forged down to ~1" x 1/4" bar.  Not hardened, sanded to 400 grit and 5-10 second acid dip:

20210512_132531.jpg

It's definitely a path I'm going to continue for a while.  On most of the piece, it looks like a time-lapse night sky shot.  I'm not sure how much of that is due to the drawing out I did (probably most of it), or the shape of the pieces originally.

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And if anyone needs convincing on whether or not to try Kilz in the can:

20210511_163958.jpg

 

This is after taking a cut-off disk to the bubbled out sides and the end cut off and using a blunt chisel to pry bend the can open.  

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6 minutes ago, Brian Dougherty said:

I didn't really have much hope for this when you started.  Glad I was wrong.

You're not the only one.  I think everyone was thinking I was going to be using something like the fine nickel powder that you can buy from Jantz and Kelly Cupples.  

I will try the powdered stuff for clouds, not stars.

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