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Posted (edited)

Hello there!

Got into file making seems simple enough so far.

Tho, I'm wondering about the chisel geometry, so far I've been going with "hand engraving chisel" bevel angles.

 

I remember years ago there was an article somewhere which may have had the details about the file cutting chisels but...

I thought it wasn't important at the time "haha, file making? When will I ever!"

...now

 

So anyone got some breadcrumbs of knowledge?

 

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Edited by J.Leon_Szesny
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I remember the thread, I'll try to find it later.  I do remember the chisel is short and triangular...

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7 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

I remember the thread, I'll try to find it later.  I do remember the chisel is short and triangular...

That be great!

Ye my chisel is just a random hardware scrapper, just for testing.

Seems higher angle=finer cut

and lower angles=rougher cut

 

I made 4 cut rows at different angles, the teeths geometry seems the same, just the distance and size is affected 

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4 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

 

and here's a video...

 

Nice, I check it all out after my brain cools down.

Made this, amongst other things

 

I think really need to drink more while forging...

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MOST IMPORTANT!!! the proper search term to search for file making is "file cutting" if you look up "how to make a file" you will get a bunch of computer related stuff. 

you want the file blank to be straight and even thickness or even tapers or it will warp all over the place during teeth cutting and hardening

 

make sure the steel that you are cutting teeth into is soft and the chisel is hard, 5160 might not cut it and i think i had the best luck with a chisel made from an old nicholson file.

 

after you cut the teeth the file blank will likely be warped so you need a soft mallet and some kind of soft anvil to straighten it 

 

i dont temper my files unless they are very delicate, i leave most of them full hard, it doesnt matter at all for wood and i havent been losing file tooths to steel

 

ill get some pictures up if i can remember what image hosting site i have an account on.... 

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14 hours ago, steven smith said:

after you cut the teeth the file blank will likely be warped so you need a soft mallet and some kind of soft anvil to straighten it 

 

i dont temper my files unless they are very delicate, i leave most of them full hard, it doesnt matter at all for wood and i havent been losing file tooths to steel

 

ill get some pictures up if i can remember what image hosting site i have an account on.... 

thats is a good point, I had not thought about file re-straightening,
currently im still having a bit of a problem cutting the teeth into a feather file, the diamond crossection makes it awkward/hard to cut an even tooth across the whole face, now I hope that was just the fault of my chisel, so I made the new one
but it might simply be because I dont have a way to hold the diamond shape in a way that would allow the force of the chisel cutting be appropriately delivered across the entire face.

for now I'll check out Alans links and see if I can find some detail on the chisels bevel angles, then I sharpen the chisel and try it again.

 

@steven smith yeh pictures are always nice to have! 

I usually just use my phone to upload pictures here, this websites mobile version is pretty good with letting you upload directly from your phones photo bank.

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I couldn't find any reference for the chisels angles so imma go experimental.

 

Although it already proved to be working much better. Now I just need to figure out, technique

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Enjoy!

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Metalworking/UUdVAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1 

 

Start on page 106 and read about file making.  Cutting (including edge angles for the chisels and hammer weights for different size files), straightening,. hardening, tempering tangs, etc.  I was trying to scan pages from my hard copy with my phone when it occurred to me the book is out of copyright and probably on Google Books.  And so it is.  I recommend everyone download it and read the first half.  The last part, projects and so on, is impractical since most of us can't make patterns and take them to the friendly neighborhood foundry down the street for your fun little home project...  but that's a 1904 book for you.

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20 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

The last part, projects and so on, is impractical since most of us can't make patterns and take them to the friendly neighborhood foundry down the street for your fun little home project

Plebeians.  :P

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20 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

that sounds like a cool book from the reviews I read...tho I have no idea what im to do with that link.

Download? what? where?
all I see are options to buy a physical copy of the book(which honestly I am considering!)
16euro on amazon. (but I want it NOW!!! :P
 

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11 minutes ago, J.Leon_Szesny said:

Download? what? where?

 

Click the link, then click the "X" in the upper right hand corner of the GoogleBooks bar.  Then the image will go away and you will have the option of clicking the download link that's hidden behind it.  That's on my laptop, it probably looks different on a phone...

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

there we go! yea the previous link didn't do nothing...or im too technologically challenged.

 

hm hm intercroissant 

"the edge is rounded off, so to indent rather than to cut"
and it seems I have to find a way to hold the diamond shaped faces horizontally flat..how the...
I need to make a custom form for it...geez this is turning out to be harder than I thought.

@Alan Longmirethanks a bunch I'll try doing...something.

This is quickly turning from a small side project into a new acquisition of a craft. 

(still I will buy the book! seems useful to have lying around)

Edited by J.Leon_Szesny
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1 hour ago, J.Leon_Szesny said:

the edge is rounded off, so to indent rather than to cut

 

Yes, I was intrigued by that, but since he doesn't specify how round I suspect he just means to slightly strike the edge as one does with an engraving tool so it doesn't chip.  It has to be sharp enough that the tooth thus raised is sharp?  :huh:  I haven't tried it, but the important thing seems to be the smaller bevel on the back forcing the longer bevel forward, thus raising the tooth.  And the force required..  I notice he says for large (read ca. 18 inches/44cm) files to use an eight to ten pound (3.3 - 4.5 Kg) hammer!  For these small ones a small hammer would work.  Note that the hammer traditionally used is a dog-head, often with quite an angle to the face.

 

As for a fixture, were I trying one of those feather files I'd grind the blank, then set it in lead.  Or pitch, or auto body filler, dop wax, epoxy, or the solid adhesive of your choice to hold one face perfectly horizontal.  

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And 16 euros?  Not bad!  I bought a reprint in 1996 for something like $35.  I see they are now $17.  A very handy book for these trades, but you must be your own safety officer.  Lots of mercury gilding, lead, fuming nitric, sulfuric, and hydrochloric acids, fuming ammonia, and other things of dubious safety if one is not aware of the potential hazards.  That's one of the many reasons I love old books. B)

When that one was written, municipal gas lighting was still common, so there's a soldering-iron stove and a small forge that run off your household acetylene supply.  You DO have a carbide generator in the attic, yes?  :lol:

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@Alan Longmire

Nah I think they do mean "rounded edge" I tried it and it actually works great! And the edge on this chisel is dead blunt, really it's more a punch than a chisel at this point and still raised a good tooth.

 

I think it might be important to make it well rounded or "elliptically" round.

 

I definitely would've never thought of that!

Take a look, you can see that the edge is very blunt

 

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the tooth does feel pretty sharp but I'll clean the test piece and "actually" file it flat

and bring out my phones micro camera

and get some nice shots, right up close of whats going on

-tomorrow ;)

 

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On 5/30/2021 at 8:37 AM, Alan Longmire said:

 

and here's a video...

 

Wow that is a great video and how to cut your own files!! Don't know but it must take practice to get the spacing so even!! I watched him cutting grooves in the video and noticed he is working away from the last grove instead using the last grove as a gauge. If I couldn't see the last grove it looks like it would be harder to keep even but not for him!! 

Puts thoughts in my head for special files!! Don't know if I have the patience to do that all day! 

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Posted (edited)

@C Craftcuttings files is pretty easy, especially if you're using a sharp chisel, you slide it back till you feel it bump against the raised metal deformation caused by cutting the previous tooth and then that's where the next'll go.

 

Now w a proper rounded edge tho, yea def been noticing it is harder.

 

@Alan Longmire

I think I finally got a good picture...micro camera is so terrible..

Tho this is not the best I could've done in terms of cutting/punching.

The round edge seems to be no problem but I think the sharpness of the tooth, may be impacted more by the cutting angle and the bevel geometry

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Edited by J.Leon_Szesny
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