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Hello fellow humans!


Im getting more and more into engraving and im going to start making some ingots and alloys, soon-ish.
Im looking for something different, like weird..."stuff," going on in the soft metal/s
having two metals swirl into each other or adding minerals, chemicals(?) to affect certain metals color during smelting?

I literally have no idea yet how to even look these things up, all im finding is "tinted" or "patina" and that ain't it.

I know about mokumegane but it seems like I need specific set ups and my forge is kinda on the handwork-traditional side, so I've filed it under "maybe for later in life?"

 

also would like to hear what "nonsense" you've been sprinkling into your crucibles, I can definitely see myself adding strange things, like, crushed up amber pebbles and when I stone the metal and polish it I get shiny orange spots of amber gems.(nvm, amber melts at 300C :unsure:

 

PS: currently im working on/planning to inlay and engrave a budding magnolia flower on a kiridashi.

I would go with copper, since as far as I know that seems the closest to "pink" but I would really like to have it be a very light/white-ish pink, I would try adding copper to other metals that cast on the "white" side, like aluminium and silver(probably not silver tho, since that hurts to "experiment" with)
 

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Adding silver to copper (making it shibuichi) will definitely change the color to a lighter white-ish pink, sort of rose-gold (here's a 20% shibuichi pendant before patination). You can get by with 15/20% silver or less, but one issue you'll have is oxidation, which will eventually turn the alloy grey (possibly with some vert-de-gris depending on how it gets handled over time). Typically those copper alloys get patinated (traditionally with rokushō) which tend to stabilize the final color, but you mentioned you're not interested in that (besides, if this is inlaid on a kiridashi, the steel would kill the niage solution). You could instead coat the inlay with some kind of jewelry coating to preserve its unoxidized color.

 

I'm curious why you're not interested in patination as a solution for this? Patinated alloys are typically a lot more stable over time, and although some patina processes are pretty crude and blotchy, others are quite subtle and well-controlled (though as mentioned, steel in the piece makes the latter more difficult to pull off).

 

Whatever you chose to experiment with, please do report back on your results! :)

 

Edited by Francis Gastellu
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8 hours ago, J.Leon_Szesny said:

Hello fellow humans!


Im getting more and more into engraving and im going to start making some ingots and alloys, soon-ish.
Im looking for something different, like weird..."stuff," going on in the soft metal/s
having two metals swirl into each other or adding minerals, chemicals(?) to affect certain metals color during smelting?

I literally have no idea yet how to even look these things up, all im finding is "tinted" or "patina" and that ain't it.

I know about mokumegane but it seems like I need specific set ups and my forge is kinda on the handwork-traditional side, so I've filed it under "maybe for later in life?"

 

also would like to hear what "nonsense" you've been sprinkling into your crucibles, I can definitely see myself adding strange things, like, crushed up amber pebbles and when I stone the metal and polish it I get shiny orange spots of amber gems.(nvm, amber melts at 300C :unsure:

 

PS: currently im working on/planning to inlay and engrave a budding magnolia flower on a kiridashi.

I would go with copper, since as far as I know that seems the closest to "pink" but I would really like to have it be a very light/white-ish pink, I would try adding copper to other metals that cast on the "white" side, like aluminium and silver(probably not silver tho, since that hurts to "experiment" with)
 

 

What do you know about mokume? It can be difficult or simple,I don't know if you have read Steve Midgett's book....here it is online.  https://www.mokume.com/mokume-gane-a-comprehensive-study/table-of-contents

Edited by DanM
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@Francis Gastelluthe Kiridashi body is made of butter iron not sure if that changes things with a niage solution but yea,

im not interested in patinas right now because I want to keep it more simple, the less special processes I have to apply to get the results I want, the better.

I will share my smelting blobs with you all when I get back to the forge, for now...still fixing things around the house....

 

@DanMI don't know much about mokumegane, since the internet is flooded with the "western" imitation processes and those don't seem very traditional

the link you send me tho has some interesting information but again even the process that Norio Tamagawa uses, still seems questionable to me. Is he a blacksmith? Has he explored the method of how such a box could've/would've been made in the 17th century?

that being said, I like that process a lot more than the one with the nuts and bolts...

its simpler and allows for quicker work and manipulation of the billet  


 

 

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If you want different colors, mokume is definitely the way to go.  Melting alloys together doesn't work to produce swirls and such, although you can cast bronze, for instance, into a box of scraps of other metals (well cleaned and fluxed, of course) and keep it vibrating until it sets to get a sort of similar effect.  It may not be a good bond, though.  

 

 

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hmm from what I've been reading it seems for what im looking for with the kiridashi I'd have to use silver, a lot of silver and maybe the opposite of shibuichi like 80%silver 20%copper...

I've seen some tungsten copper rods, and that color is kinda in the right direction, maybe if it was silver instead it would be spot on..

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Also, smelting is converting ore to metal.  You'll get better results when searching if you use the proper terms.  You are looking to just melt and cast (even if just casting ingots).  Given your location is Germany, this may be a simple translation issue, but you can clearly communicate well enough in English that I assume you are happy to look through English language sources.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Alright got over the first hurdle.

 

Now I have the basic understanding of how this "liquid metal stuff" works(in a charcoal forge)

 

I didn't know that the liquid really doesn't readily want to stick to other gunk like, charcoal or rusty steel rod and that I got a good few seconds to cast it, so no panic.

 

This was mostly copper with a little tiny bit of aluminum.

IMG_20210720_200924.jpg

IMG_20210720_200916.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Cuddly fish bone cast necklace ornament.

Made w aluminium bronze and silver.

Even the tiny bit of silver I added, lightened the color quite a bit but a noteworthy thing was that this stuff during drilling work hardened to the point, where a cobalt drill bit did nothing!!! Almost like I was trying to drill hardened steel.

 

 

IMG_20210801_095439_090.jpg

IMG_20210801_095439_140.jpg

IMG_20210801_095439_145.jpg

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