Baby hydraulic press!

[John N]

Started this project 6 months ago, its been very stop start due to other commitments, but finally got her under power! 

 

A full 12 metric tons, placed inside a 'ring frame' - this is the simplest and strongest design I could think of. I wince when I see presses flexing and ramping under load, so wanted my design to be tight and right! We ran a FEA analysis on the frame, and it does not flex at all until its got over 100 ton loading 

 

Press has a 2 horse motor, running at 8.5 amps from a single phase 240v supply (which is the max FLC of the motor) - seems to work nicely.

 

Hopefully we will build these for sale if I can get the cost out of them a bit, if not, it has still been great fun to see it from fag packet sketch to working machine!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/0ePhypK 

Edited September 28, 2021 by John N
image problems from imgur

[John N]

Link will take you to the video! - cant embed thumbnail. I really don't like technology sometimes!

 

 

[Brian Dougherty]

Nice John.  She's definitely stout

 

[Alan Longmire]

Pretty awesome!  I bet those would sell like stuff that sells well if you can reach a reasonable price point.  That is an extremely well-built (and attractive) machine.

If we could get transatlantic shipping costs down I'd be quite tempted!

[Gilbert McCann]

Looks great you do really nice work. 

[Doug Webster]

I would like one please!

[Jaro Petrina]

That is nicely designed machine. 

[Daniel W]

For a guy with a hobby shop that wants to break down big steel for tooling, that size is really nice.  Although I would love to have a hammer in my hobby shop, it's just not possible.  No space for one, can't remodel my existing space to put in a pad for one, and in some instances can't power one.

 

I've never worked with a press, but they have been highly recommended for me to substitute for a hammer.  No worry about putting in a new concrete pad, don't have to worry about 3phase motors as much.  The biggest advantage is little foot print, being able to mount one to a work table and having a semi permanent home is quite ideal.

[billyO]

4 hours ago, Doug Webster said:

I would like one please!

Me three!!!

 

What size are the dies on that one?

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by billyO

[John N]

2 hours ago, billyO said:

Me three!!!

 

What size are the dies on that one?

 

 

 

The maximum (whilst fully supported by the frame and ram) is 2" x 6". 

 

I codged the dies together from scrap for the prototype to test it, so they are 'sub optimal in many ways'! They are 45 x 140 mm

 

You can have a much wider die on this press than some other designs, as they are held by the front and back clamps (rather than screws going up into the ram, and down into the bed). Ive designed it so you can make dies easily by welding bits onto a plain flat plate, and the clamps locate onto that. The wider dies area should be useful, as you can work off centre as its very solidly constructed, and well guided (minimal 'ramping')

[steven smith]

that frame is a pretty nice hunk of steel, the whole thing looks great and very well done.

Edited September 30, 2021 by steven smith

[John N]

gave her a lick of paint to smarten things up a bit.

 

Im not 100% convinced with the colour

, but it will look very different when the front and back plates are fitted to cover all the working bits!

[Alan Longmire]

You realize you have to give it pin stripes now, don't you? . Gold ones.

[Chris Christenberry]

Absolutely, Alan.  Gold Pin Stripes.  Just what it needs.  Will make it work 100% better.

[Alex Middleton]

You could probably even double the price then too.  Seems to work for other companies!

[Gerhard Gerber]

That........is what is missing from my life. 

[KenH]

You did a good job on that press.  On this side of the pond I understand that's called an "H" frame.  As you said, perhaps the strongest design around for a press.  Is that 1"X3" solid steel columns on the side?  WOW, you're right, way overbuilt for 12 tons.  Is that a 4" cylinder?  Looks like a long stroke? 

 

I've recently got a Coal Iron press, the one they call a "12 ton", but is actually only 9 ton.  The one I got was only 8 ton due to mis-adjusted pressure on control valve.  My understanding from email correspondence with Coal Iron they designed the "12 ton" with a 3.5" cylinder running at 2550 psi which gives 12 ton.  Due to cost (or "ease of sourcing" is the phrase they used) a 3" was selected to run at 2550 psi which gives 9 ton.  My press was adjusted to only 2250 psi which is 8 ton.  I installed a pressure gauge so I could see the actual psi.

 

Link to calculate tons:  

https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

 

I have since changed to a 4" cylinder ($133 shipped) which gives an honest 12 ton at 1925 psi.  I'm running it at 2250 psi for 14 tons and the frame seems to be holding just fine.  I ran some calculations and increasing 12 ton to 14 ton gives only an extra .001" of stretch to column.   

 

Link to calculate stretch of column: 

 https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/stress#an-example-of-calculations

 

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but thought some folks might like the calculation info.

 

Ken H>

[Mike Gracia]

On 9/28/2021 at 8:15 PM, John N said:

Started this project 6 months ago, its been very stop start due to other commitments, but finally got her under power! 

 

A full 12 metric tons, placed inside a 'ring frame' - this is the simplest and strongest design I could think of. I wince when I see presses flexing and ramping under load, so wanted my design to be tight and right! We ran a FEA analysis on the frame, and it does not flex at all until its got over 100 ton loading 

 

Press has a 2 horse motor, running at 8.5 amps from a single phase 240v supply (which is the max FLC of the motor) - seems to work nicely.

 

Hopefully we will build these for sale if I can get the cost out of them a bit, if not, it has still been great fun to see it from fag packet sketch to working machine!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/0ePhypK 

Amazing! Do you have these for sale yet? What price are they likely to be?

[Pieter-Paul Derks]

I like the colour!

 

Guess I'll add this press next to the 70s triumph tr6 on the list of green british things I really want in my garage

[Alan Longmire]

21 minutes ago, Pieter-Paul Derks said:

70s triumph tr6 on the list of green british things I really want in my garage

 

I'd prefer an Austin-Healey 3000, but a TR-6 would be acceptable.   Gotta be true British Racing Green, though, not that John Deere green Sir Nicholson here used. 

 

[John N]

2 hours ago, KenH said:

You did a good job on that press.  On this side of the pond I understand that's called an "H" frame.  As you said, perhaps the strongest design around for a press.  Is that 1"X3" solid steel columns on the side?  WOW, you're right, way overbuilt for 12 tons.  Is that a 4" cylinder?  Looks like a long stroke? 

 

I've recently got a Coal Iron press, the one they call a "12 ton", but is actually only 9 ton.  The one I got was only 8 ton due to mis-adjusted pressure on control valve.  My understanding from email correspondence with Coal Iron they designed the "12 ton" with a 3.5" cylinder running at 2550 psi which gives 12 ton.  Due to cost (or "ease of sourcing" is the phrase they used) a 3" was selected to run at 2550 psi which gives 9 ton.  My press was adjusted to only 2250 psi which is 8 ton.  I installed a pressure gauge so I could see the actual psi.

 

Link to calculate tons:  

https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

 

I have since changed to a 4" cylinder ($133 shipped) which gives an honest 12 ton at 1925 psi.  I'm running it at 2250 psi for 14 tons and the frame seems to be holding just fine.  I ran some calculations and increasing 12 ton to 14 ton gives only an extra .001" of stretch to column.   

 

Link to calculate stretch of column: 

 https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/stress#an-example-of-calculations

 

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but thought some folks might like the calculation info.

 

Ken H>

 

Its all quite interesting when you get into it a bit! I am quite liking the simplicity of hydraulic formula!

 

This press is 90mm bore cylinder, which from memory gives 12.3 metric tons (not american short tons!) @ 2500psi. (thats about 8.5 amps, on a 240 volt single phase supply) 1.5 kw motor. Cant remember the ram speed, but that 'is what it is' - the press was designed with power & tonnage in mind, the speed is the 3rd part of the formula, so is what it is!

 

The frame is grossly over engineered, but its functions are more than 'stretch resistance' - We modelled the frame in solid works (FEA analysis), and there was not a hint of stretch, or any hot spots, until 115 metric tons loading! - The thickness of the frame is an easy way to give guide surfaces for the ram (slide). The frame is one piece, it is an 'H' frame, but more accurately described as a ring frame, which has the optimum elastic circuit.

 

I went this route, as I have an unbelievably good profile supplier who grinds to thousandths for incredibly reasonable cost. Material costs way more than fabricating a frame for sure, but its less labour, and technically vastly superior!  (and looks cool )

 

Column stretch is an over simplification of press frame design, you need to consider the entire elastic circuit. If you ran a model on a fabricated frame the stress / strain on the weld interfaces would be crazy! 

 

edit for clarification! - the frame of the press is an elongated 'O' profiled from a single piece of 55mm (2 1/4" ish) thick plate (no welding), which is then lumsden ground to 53mm thick. The 'ring' is then welded to a baseplate, with 4 ribs (more for aesthetic reasons than strength!)

Edited October 5, 2021 by John N
clarification of frame design

[John N]

1 hour ago, Mike Gracia said:

Amazing! Do you have these for sale yet? What price are they likely to be?

not quite yet. there is some heavy spread sheet action going on at work! 

 

I have substantially improved and simplified the design, and need to finalise that, and grow a bit of confidence to 'pull the trigger' to make them in batches. Its a bit outside my current comfort zone, as we generally work on 'one off' very big forging machines 

[KenH]

Here's the link for ram speed, but considering the type of work ya'll do I suspect it's not needed to calculate ram speed.  Depending on the GPM of your pump I'm sure the ram speed is just fine.  https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_speed.htm

 

You're right, the idea of how much stretch is in the column with pressure is very simplified but I suspect it's in line with rest of stresses.  The Coal Iron press uses 2X2X1/4" angle for the columns, 2 on each side for a total of 4 sq in of materiel.   I'm considering building a new frame using 3X3X1/4" angle (what I have on hand without having to purchase angle) and making it 36" tall rather than the stock 31" to take advantage of the 8" ram travel of the 4" cylinder.

 

I know calculating the stretch in the column isn't the only thing to be concerned about, but "IF" it's at all indicative of strength the 3X3X1/4" should handle 16 ton just fine as it's actually got .001" less stretch at 16 ton than does the 2X2X1/4" angle frame at 12 ton.

 

Ken H>

[Mike Gracia]

49 minutes ago, John N said:

not quite yet. there is some heavy spread sheet action going on at work! 

 

I have substantially improved and simplified the design, and need to finalise that, and grow a bit of confidence to 'pull the trigger' to make them in batches. Its a bit outside my current comfort zone, as we generally work on 'one off' very big forging machines 

Okay cool... Will proceed with the idea of a log splitter project for now then hahaha, keen to get something usable in the next 10 days so pdobs best do that.

 

Will keep an eye for updates tho! For poss future upgrade!

[John N]

1 hour ago, Mike Gracia said:

Okay cool... Will proceed with the idea of a log splitter project for now then hahaha, keen to get something usable in the next 10 days so pdobs best do that.

 

Will keep an eye for updates tho! For poss future upgrade!

 

A 'log splitter' press is a very good option, just try and brace the frame, and remove some slop from the moving parts, the frames are really not designed for the 'dead stop' every 1 second you get forging! The power pack on this press is basically 'log splitter' with non standard pump / motor configuration!