Milk Can Forge

[Doug Webster]

In one of the threads I found a video link to a forge that Matt Walker had built.  It has a glorious fire!  I believe it's made from a Milk Can.  Hoping Matt might share some details of his forge design.   

  

Edited October 26, 2021 by Doug Webster
Details details details

[Jerrod Miller]

The forum lets you tag people, and that sends them a note to check the thread.  @Matt Walker (Assuming that is the correct Matt Walker)

[Matt Walker]

OK, here are some some photos. I'll be happy to answer anything I can. The main thing is it's a super damascus forge for the scale I was working. The mashed down 3" pipe was my attempt to widen the hot spot, I think it worked somewhat. The shelf isn't my idea, I may have seen it here. If you see the seam it was 2 pours. I wasn't quite reaching the heat I like with the circular first pour. The inner layer was the solution to reduce the inside cubic area, and was enough to get it in the sweet heat spot. The first pour was formed with a cardboard tube, the second was formed with a greased section of 6" stove pipe screwed to a piece of wood for the step. 

 

I built a few of these with satanite coated ceramic fiber and was quite satisfied except for the constant patching. This Kasto-lite is maintenance free. In my experience the reflective coating is pretty much worthless in a damascus dedicated forge because eventually the inside gets coated with a black glass like substance I can only guess is scale and flux mixed that nullifies the reflective coat. This forge ran with Koa-wool for a long time before going to the Kasto-lite.

 

You may see in the photos the air curtain, wonderful option, powered by what I think is meant for a bouncy house or one of those 10 foot floppy ad figures. Feeds into a mashed floor resister.  Also the mount is a socket welded to a cradle the forge lays in, slid over a big re-bar driven into my dirt floor. The purpose of that is I can turn the whole thing to me when my foot is on the Power hammer or press pedal, a spring returns the forge to a position that isn't pointed at my back during the forging cycle. Another photo shows my flux rake. I derive confidence from lots of anhydrous borax and consider the mizzou floor sacrificial. After a welding cycle the floor is raked clean for the forging out cycle, a little of the floor is lost each time but it isn't being forged into the work.

 

The welds on the tube above the fuel dump are baffles. Don't know if they help or not. I do know the 90 is a must. I remember trying with a straight pipe and was never able to make it work. Everything else the same it worked beautifully when I added the bend. 

 

If you run a forge like this please wear eye protection of some type. There are discussions about that on this forum by people smarter than me. After some experimenting I settled on a shade 3 welding lens. Found some glasses that fit so that I could look through them into the forge but fit high enough that I could see under them to the forging tools.

And yess it's built in a milk can. You can see the handles removed from the top and welded to the bands.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Matt Walker

[Gary LT]

Doug, I am glad you brought this up as I remember this forge design from earlier as well. I tried to do something similar in one of my forges which needed some reduction in internal size.  However, I did not get swirl anywhere close to what is here.

Matt, I would be interested as well.

Gary LT

 

[Alan Longmire]

The swirl is because the burner enters the chamber at a tangent at the top right.  It has no option but to swirl.  

That's one heck of a forge, btw.  I've used it a few times. 

[Doug Webster]

Thanks Matt!  Very cool forge.  As luck would have it, I picked up a milk can on CL yesterday for $40.  If you don't mind me stealing your design, I might try making one myself.   It will likely be a 2 burner atmospheric forge. I will try making the shelf with wool blanket then coat with refractory.   

[Matt Walker]

1 hour ago, Doug Webster said:

Thanks Matt!  Very cool forge.  As luck would have it, I picked up a milk can on CL yesterday for $40.  If you don't mind me stealing your design, I might try making one myself.   It will likely be a 2 burner atmospheric forge. I will try making the shelf with wool blanket then coat with refractory.   

Good find on the can. I collected some way back when they were really cheap, especially if the bottom was rotten. No problem copying. But I don't understand why you want to go to the fussy atmospheric burners in a forge that big? Also in my experience wool is great for a guy who wants fast heat for short forging sessions. Cast-able refractory is better for longer sessions like pattern welding. The constant patching a wool coating in a forge that deep is a major pain.

 

I forgot to mention an impeller type blower is much better for a blown forge, especially if you restrict the nozzle like I did. Impeller blowers supply better pressure. Squirrel cage blowers are designed to supply more volume but fail for pressure. 

[Gary LT]

Thanks @Matt Walker, I went by memory to reduce my inside dimensions and these photos are clearer.

Mind if I ask what size impeller motor (or make/model #) you are using?

Kind thanks, 

Gary LT

[Matt Walker]

1 hour ago, Gary LT said:

Thanks @Matt Walker, I went by memory to reduce my inside dimensions and these photos are clearer.

Mind if I ask what size impeller motor (or make/model #) you are using?

Kind thanks, 

Gary LT

Gary, I'll check tomorrow and see if there is anything on the blower. I'm sure it's something just picked up at the local flea market, not something I ordered to any certain specs. I rarely pass up an impeller blower at the local market. They usually wind up at the tailgate sale or "iron in the hat" at our local guild meetings. I'll get you a better shot of just the blower. The last one I had was killer before it died. I'm no blower expert so the best way I can describe it is "two stage". It had two impellers of different design on one shaft with a partial divider between them. Would like to find another one and have no idea what its original application was. Those bouncy house blowers would be great if there is a valve in the system to control the blast. They have great pressure. Check/watch your local CL and fb-marketplace, I've seen them there before for around $30.

[Doug Webster]

22 hours ago, Matt Walker said:

Good find on the can. I collected some way back when they were really cheap, especially if the bottom was rotten. No problem copying. But I don't understand why you want to go to the fussy atmospheric burners in a forge that big? Also in my experience wool is great for a guy who wants fast heat for short forging sessions. Cast-able refractory is better for longer sessions like pattern welding. The constant patching a wool coating in a forge that deep is a major pain.

 

I forgot to mention an impeller type blower is much better for a blown forge, especially if you restrict the nozzle like I did. Impeller blowers supply better pressure. Squirrel cage blowers are designed to supply more volume but fail for pressure. 

 

Matt I was just thinking I could repurpose the three atmospheric burners I already have. While I was cleaning up the milk can I did some measurements and I believe your correct.   Milk can is just way too big.  My side arm burners are used in a 200 cubic inch forge.  I would need at least 3 burners.   If I pursue this path further I will follow your original design with a blown burner and castable refractory.   Now that I have the milk can cleaned up I would feel bad cutting up such a pretty vessel. 

 

[Matt Walker]

Cool, nothing magic about milk cans, just what I had on hand at the time. The first one worked so well I kept using them. Actually they are kinda heavy for this purpose. Wasn't a factor when I made the first one. Now that I'm older unnecessary weight it is an issue. 

 

Another thing about a forge this size, to consider, is the raw heat released. A heat evacuation system would be so nice. When it's 30F outside I can work comfortable with the 16 X 10' door open in a 30 X 60 X 14' shop. Any other time lots of fans and I mostly worked at night.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Matt Walker

[Matt Walker]

No useful info on the blower I'm currently using. Just finished making a piece of damascus with a friend who wants to learn. So it still works even though it has become a little weaker than when first installed. Maybe it needs a cleaning and lube job. At this point the butterfly that controls the air is set to wide open.  Here are some photos. And some of one of those for inflatable structures I like so much. Similar to the one I use for the air curtain. There is one on our local FB marketplace right now for $30.

 

 

 

 

So when the photos posted I realized there is a model # on the motor tag 200X30Sb. Which lead me to this, not something we want to buy from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-77707-0256-Combustion-Replacement-Propane/dp/B004VTGAFA/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=pool+blower&qid=1635394532&qsid=138-4505617-2182544&s=lawn-garden&sr=1-14&sres=B075ZD8DBM%2CB0037TMW0W%2CB075ZCMZRN%2CB0037TSH7E%2CB0037TOTQM%2CB000N2B90U%2CB07CWXRKM3%2CB0030XM3AO%2CB004VU8YIA%2CB004VTGAFA%2CB0037TQJII%2CB004VTGB4U%2CB0928CLJJK%2CB07S86ZCRN%2CB07S7B51ZG%2CB07RXR5G33%2CB083FWTHGS%2CB082ZZCZGL%2CB085SZLLHS%2CB08HCT2K5H  But at least we now know it is some type of blower for a pool heater.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Matt Walker

[Doug Webster]

Thank you for sharing Matt.