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On the 2nd try, was the result the same as the first with the un-etched parts showing on both sides of the blade in the same spots?  

 

RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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33 minutes ago, billyO said:

On the 2nd try, was the result the same as the first with the un-etched parts showing on both sides of the blade in the same spots?  

 

It wasn't quite the same pattern on both sides, but it was un-etched on both sides. The side I showed was the worst. On the picture of the "chop through the 2x4" you can see that the non-etch part almost spans the entire length of the blade. On the other side it was not quite so wide / long and the "dark patch" near the handle was a bit bigger.

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I was initially going to blame decarb, because ny damascus etched like that when i tried forging as close as possible to final size in an effort to minimize grinding about 1 1/2 years ago.  But now I'm wondering if it's the steel.  On another knife making forum about a year ago there was a thread warning folks not to buy 1084 or 15N20 from NJSB. 

I'll post a link if you want.

Edited by billyO
RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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17 minutes ago, billyO said:

 On another knife making forum about a year ago there was a thread warning folks not to buy 1084 or 15N20 from NJSB. 

I'll post a link if you want.

Be interested to read that. Everyone say NJSB is a good place to get steel so I wonder about that. Thanks.

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RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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Yeah. Looks to me like the guy is ragging on NJSB for his own reasons.  NJSB is top-quality stuff.  Aldo has their 1084 made to his specs. Everybody else just orders stuff.

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I have no skin in this game, but JT knows his stuff and runs a respected heat treating business in eastern WA, so I'd caution against dismissing his comments as merely one person's grudge...

Isn't it possible that NJSB got a bad batch? Especially if none of the other explanations on what happened don't fit?

Just trying to help solve a mystery...

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RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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I suppose it's possible, I'm just surprised I've never heard anyone else say a single negative about NJSB, other than shipping costs to points west of the Mississippi and the occasional out-of-stock issues while they're backordered on a new melt of 1084 or W2.  Which, again, they have done specifically for themselves.  The fact that he's the only one, and that the instances he popped up and said something were in threads asking about alloys that were not the ones he was complaining about makes me suspect he just has a beef with the place for some reason.  

 

Example: he said "never buy NJSB's 1075-1084."  NJSB's 1075 is very low Mn (unlike Admiral's, for instance) and will not respond to heat treatment the same as a high-Mn 1075.  It actually likes to be water quenched, for instance.  If you try to treat that 1075 the same way you'd treat the high-Mn 1084 with V that NJSB sells (or vice-versa), of course one or the other is not going to harden properly. So maybe JT didn't want to tweak his formulas to account for the differences?  And then he said he'd heard of people having problems hardening the W2. Not that he himself couldn't, but that "people" couldn't.  Again, NJSB's W2 is designed for hamon and requires a very fast oil to work as advertised.  It takes a lot of practice with that sort of alloy to get consistent good results.  Not trying to start a cross-forum flame war, I just sense sour grapes for some reason.  

 

Full disclosure, I like Aldo as a person, he's a lot of fun to hang around with. I may just not want to hear negatives. But again, in my extremely limited experience I've never heard anyone else complain about the quality.   

 

Regarding Bill's mystery etch issue as related to steel quality, The only thing that would affect the etch besides hardening would be inconsistent Mn levels across a melt.  This does not happen with factory steel.  I remain mystified...:huh:

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I wish I had seen this sooner. I was going to suggest that before you break it, you leave it in the FeCl overnight.

You could still do that with one of the pieces.....:blink:

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

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I've seen some cases here an there on FB of makers who had soft patch issues on their 1084 and W2(most were stock removal). Most had HT furnaces and attempted several procedures to try and fix it. Some had success using a high temp first cycle. Some couldn't be fixed no matter what, like there was no carbon in the steel. 

 

Those cases remain anecdotal though it certainly was frustrating to the makers. 

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This is quite interesting stuff.  If anyone has a sample of mono-steel that seems to be behaving like the images posted by JT in the second link from billyO (this one) I would be very happy to run it on a spectrometer to see if there are chemistry differences between sections.  Needs to be distinct sections of about 1 inch diameter for the spectrometer I currently have access to (I'm vaguely shopping for a new one, but I would bet the requirements will be the same there, too).  

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Thanks guys. When I am back up on my feet I will go through this all with the care it deserves. Just wanted you to know I've seen the comments.

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On 1/27/2022 at 6:11 PM, Joshua States said:

I wish I had seen this sooner. I was going to suggest that before you break it, you leave it in the FeCl overnight.

You could still do that with one of the pieces.....:blink:

There were other reasons to snap this one. First, a knife maker we know has said in several of his posts that every now and then you have to make a knife and snap it just to be sure your process is still good. I have changed several parts of my process since dialing in my temps and times ( the major one was my new HT forge). I had never checked a blade since the changes and figured I should probably do this. The second reason was this knife picked up a wicked twist on second HT. I was able to get a lot of it out during temper, but as the blade was basically finished I didn't have much thickness to grind out the remaining issue without a significant change of blade shape. So, in many regards it wasn't quite as hard to break this blade as it normally would have been. 

 

I do still have all the pieces so I may try soaking them overnight just to see what happens. 

 

Thanks.

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On 1/27/2022 at 8:44 PM, Jerrod Miller said:

This is quite interesting stuff.  If anyone has a sample of mono-steel that seems to be behaving like the images posted by JT in the second link from billyO (this one) I would be very happy to run it on a spectrometer to see if there are chemistry differences between sections.  Needs to be distinct sections of about 1 inch diameter for the spectrometer I currently have access to (I'm vaguely shopping for a new one, but I would bet the requirements will be the same there, too).  

Jerrod,

I still have all the pieces of this blade as well as several of the raw material bars (straight from NJSB) in my shop. Would you be interested in a sample of each / any? Raw material is 1" wide by 0.07" thick.

 

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42 minutes ago, Bill Schmalhofer said:

Raw material is 1" wide by 0.07" thick.

Sadly, I don't think I could prep that and get an accurate reading being so thin.  1/8" thick is probably about the thinnest I would think our set-up could do with much accuracy.  

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7 hours ago, Bill Schmalhofer said:

First, a knife maker we know has said in several of his posts that every now and then you have to make a knife and snap it just to be sure your process is still good.

What a nit-noid! :blink: (sounds like something I would say....)

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“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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