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Concrete saw blades any good for blades.


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They are doing some work at the unit next to my work. Long story short I just got these 3 blades in trade for an in and out burger.

I am having a good blade day.....right after that my buddy sent me a tracking number for a box full of IPE he had left off a deck he did last year.

I am kind of surprised I never see that on blades.....I am guessing its because its a little plane jane.

If its durable enough for an out door deck I think it would be great on kitchen knives and filet blades.

Any way are these worthy? If so should I try and grind and not get em hot.

Or are they tempered so far back I will want to anneal ...grind,and then re heat treat?

I tried the search feature and didt come up with anything.

TIA

 

creteblade.jpg

Edited by Kreg Whitehead
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As with pretty much all saw blades, I think you are going to have to do some testing.  There isn't going to be an industry standard for what to use, so every brand, and possibly each model type within each brand, could be different.  

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A long time ago I also had several of these left over from work and I thought about using them in blades. I cut some strips from one and tried welding them into billet. After that experiment, I took one and made a round tool table out of it. Then my wife took the third one and put it into a piece of artwork.

You may have better results than I did.

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The only saw blades that size you get locally are used for processing fire wood on farms, and they are a very good steel.

 

Those don't look rusty enough :D

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Those blades have diamond bits impregnated in the edge to do the cutting.  Who knows what alloy the steel part may be.  Like mentioned above, testing is required.

 

A buddy of mine once gifted a great "score" on me.  He snagged some very large used band saw blades from his workplace thinking they would be good for pattern welding stuff for knife blades.  Turns out they had carbide cutting teeth and the band part was 4140 so not so good knife making material.  I ended up making a bow saw out of one of them for a potter friend so she could saw soft firebrick.  I used rebar for the frame and relied on its springyness to keep the blade tensioned.  Worked very well.

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I was told a good machine shop should have hardness testing equipment.

I called quite a few yesterday.....one guy said he would test for 10 bucks a shot.

Most said no cant help ya. The last guy that told me no I said dont you need to know the hardness of what you are trying to machine?

He paused and said.....ya I have a hardness tester...but its so expensive that I dont want to mess with your knives.

I think I am gonna cut the machette I drew out last night.....then profile a pairing knife and toss it in the paragon and have him test both.

What temp do you guys think would be a good guess. I was thinking 1525* 

I guess if I try and snap a piece as is, that might be somewhat helpful.....if it bends and doesnt break thats probably not a great sign....I would think.

 

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You're on the right track. Use mystery steel test.  Rather than making a whole blade just cut  a small rectangular piece, heat to proper temp, quench and break it. Bends its not good ,  breaks you got something to play with. 

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39 minutes ago, Kreg Whitehead said:

I guess if I try and snap a piece as is, that might be somewhat helpful.....if it bends and doesnt break thats probably not a great sign....I would think.

I wouldn't assume that.  for testing to see if it is hardenable I would just get a small section, heat, water quench, and break.  No need to worry about over heating or cracking during quench.  You can refine those aspects if it is any good at all.  Use the forge, watch for decalescence/recalescence, get it a bit hotter than that and plunge it in the water.  The steel may not currently be heat treated to a hardness anywhere near its peak, so it may bend a lot more now than it would with a different heat treatment.  

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Soooooo...I just got back from a machine shop that said they would do a hardness test for 10 a pop.

He comes back and tells me the sample I heat treated and quenched in water last night tested in the 55-57 rockwell range.

I was hoping for more but I guess that isnt terrible. What will I lose tempering ...another couple?

I am on the fence here......wondering if that too low.

Soooooo ...then he says would ya like to know what it is. Of course I said yes.

So he shoots it with his x ray dealio and gets this.

Then with a kind of surprised look on his face he says you must have really heat treated that good to get a piece of 1522 that hard.

I have never heard of 1522....nor have I tried to google it. If anyone can tell me some educated opinion in this stuff that would be great.

 

1522.jpg

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Never heard of it, but according to the ASTM heat treater's companion app, it's a common alloy for case hardened applications.  .25% C max.  The chrome and manganese are what let you get it as hard as you did.  So in other words, exactly what you'd expect for a concrete saw blade: tough as all get out, not good for edge holding if used as a kitchen knife.  It'd be good for machetes and other abuse-prone choppers.

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15 minutes ago, Alan Longmire said:

Never heard of it, but according to the ASTM heat treater's companion app, it's a common alloy for case hardened applications.  .25% C max.  The chrome and manganese are what let you get it as hard as you did.  So in other words, exactly what you'd expect for a concrete saw blade: tough as all get out, not good for edge holding if used as a kitchen knife.  It'd be good for machetes and other abuse-prone choppers.

Super interesting.....thanks.  Is the chrome going to make it hard or impossible if I try and use it in a sanmai as the outer layers?

I guess the 100 dolla question after that is whats it going to etch like...but I can test that easy enough.

Is it safe to say that if I oil quench it it wont be as hard....or is that an impossible question to predict.

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That certainly isn't 1522, nor can their gun tell you if it is 1522 since it can't read carbon.  The absolute best they could do is is make a guess that it is a 15XX.  Given the hardness you are much more likely to be 1552, which would read the same with that gun, but has a 0.47-0.55C and max hardness of about 57-58 HRC.  But the gun doesn't read Si either, and there could be a bit of that, too.  The 0.28 Cr seems to me too high to be an accident/tramp, but it could be.  I would really bet that this is some custom mill run made to the saw blade manufacturer's spec.  

 

I know I am really spoiled by having access to a spectrometer, but I hate those XRF guns.  So very limited in their actual use.  

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That level of Cr isn't likely to pose a problem with welding.  What it is really doing for you is kicking the nose of the TTT Diagram out to the right, giving you more time to get down to forming martensite temperatures before forming pearlite.  It is also suppressing the Ms temperature a bit*.  The Mn is also doing that, but it is less effective than the Cr at moving the nose of the TTT curve, hence why the 15XX series has so much Mn in it.  It is basically like the 10XX series with more Mn, often used at the low C end with case hardened, or even just flame/induction hardened surfaces.  

 

From a chap named Andrews in 1965:  Ms (deg C) = 539-423*(%C)-30.4*(%Mn)-12.1*(%Cr)-17.7*(%Ni)-7.5*(%Mo)

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