Jump to content

Next project 2x72 belt grinder need help


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Hey there, 
I know there are countless post on the forums regarding belt sanders. After scouring all the threads I have a cumulative knowledge thats leaves me back at a very much indecisive square one. =D

I do know, I want to build a 2x72, I will need an motor to sufficiently provide the power to hog, I will need a VFD of some sort, and I need to do this with the budget of $600. I am willing to cut and weld and make as much as I can to reduce the cost, thats why I purchased the welder, I intend to use it to build my forge down the road.

As far as tools go, I have a new Lincoln stick welder, an angle grinder, and basic garage tools. I intended on printing out a template and cutting out the stencil on the metal sheets with the angle grinder, I looked at some motors, do I have to have a 3 phase? I'm getting conflicting information about controlling the speed of my grinder. I dont have $400 for a VFD.

So where I am stuck at is mostly the VFD, I have been able to get cheap 2hp motors for $160-$180 but some of these are "compressor duty"I dont know fi they will work with a VFD. ideally Id like a too scale printout of the parts I need to make it simpler on me since all I have to cut metal is an angle grinder. I like the House Made grinder but dont need it to be able to rotate planes, (seems a little fancy). Anyone have any suggestions before I start my build, cheaper alternatives to parts/metals/motor/VFD and any other general advice to help me ring this in at or close to my budget? 

(Edited)
Final build choice

Chassis-
Jerswoodshop gen 2 tilting belt grinder.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/969297008/inch-plans-gen-2-tilting-belt-grinder

Wheels- https://www.knifegrinderparts.com/collections/wheels/products/complete-belt-knife-grinder-wheel-set-5-drive-5-8-4-tracking-2-idler-wheels

Motor- https://www.amazon.com/Three-Electric-General-Purpose-3450RPM/dp/B08K8QT3WF

VFD- https://www.amazon.com/SZCY-LLC-220V-2-2KW-Single-Phase/dp/B0811BXHBQ/ref=pd_bxgy_img_sccl_1/140-4008715-1914028?pd_rd_w=ISAee&content-id=amzn1.sym.6b3eefea-7b16-43e9-bc45-2e332cbf99da&pf_rd_p=6b3eefea-7b16-43e9-bc45-2e332cbf99da&pf_rd_r=7J79T2NCPM76QMN3HH9D&pd_rd_wg=S5NBq&pd_rd_r=ca1eefb9-a747-4dee-89b4-e476cc4fe108&pd_rd_i=B0811BXHBQ&psc=1

Also considering
 https://electricalparts.com/products/kbelectronics-9987t?variant=39285086355537&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic 

This is my final choice of parts, any thoughts, suggestions, or improvements to my plan are much appreciated. I'll post build updates as they come. Thanks again for all the information guys!

Edited by Chase Hayner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any fabrication experience to help, but I will point out both those motors are likely not ideal for a grinder since they are not "TEFC" (Totally Enclosed Fan-Cooled) motors meaning they will be susceptible to all the dust and grinder debris you'll be making, as well as water droplets from dipping your projects in your water bucket.  I only know because I stared at those motors for a few months also, lol!  I ended up buying the 1hp from Harbor Freight since it is TEFC and the lower power and RPMs works for my situation.

Those motors are listed as an ODP Enclosure, and my googly-fu yielded this from NorthAmericanPhaseConverters.com:

"An open drip proof or ODP motor is a type of motor that typically runs cooler and does not overheat. Due to the fact that the chamber has open vents and air can flow directly over the windings, this open drip proof motor tends to be slightly more efficient because the windings are cooler. Although the ODP motor doesn’t require external cooling (our idler motors have an internal fan) the open concept can allow airborne contaminants and dust to enter the chamber. . . .

On the other hand, a totally enclosed fan cooled, or TEFC motor has a closed off chamber which requires the use of an external fan to blow air over it. A benefit to having the motor totally enclosed is that it’s protected from the outside environment, including dust, airborne contaminants, and many weather disturbances such as wind-driven rain. A TEFC motor is the recommended choice when your load is in an outdoor or wet location."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So Jaron, do you think the 1hp will be sufficient for a 2x72? most of my work will be done at the forge, but 

id still like to have the power to chew up some metal for finishing.

and just to be clear, your referring to this one correct?
https://www.harborfreight.com/1-hp-farm-duty-agricultural-motor-57338.html

also found this one as well 

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Electric-General-Purpose-3450RPM/dp/B08K8QT3WF

Edited by Chase Hayner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm definitely not the best to ask for advice, I know just a small enough amount to get myself in trouble, lol!

But yeah, that Harbor freight 1 HP is what I ended up getting because I was buying a pre-made chassis so I could just bolt the two down and start grinding.  I'm a slow/methodical grinder(see "bad at grinding"), so the slow RPMs and low power helps me avoid mistakes, but I have definitely bogged the motor down before even just using a belt cleaner stick and pressing too hard.

From what I gather from my research if you have the ability to spend most/all of your budget on a quality motor with 2+ HP TEFC motor and a VFD to have variable speed that should be a solid set-up.  I just wanted to make sure you knew to look for an enclosed motor so you don't blow your money on a motor that will fail after a year of grinding and metal dust.:P

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for your awesome info, yea I think springing for one of those other motors I listed may be worth it in the long run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. VFDs are great, but not required. I've lived without one for 20 years.  I have a 1st gen KMG with three-speed step pulleys and a 1hp motor.  I can bog it down, but it works fine. 2hp would be better. 

 

2. If you do get a VFD, you need a 3-phase motor. That's why they work.  Single phase motors can't be variable speed. Well, there's a few exceptions to that, but those won't work for a grinder. 

 

3. Any motor should be TEFC, as Jaron notes.

 

4. I made stuff with only files and an angle grinder for 8 years before I got the 2x72.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan thanks for the advice, good to know they aren't required. That allows me to invest in a 2hp motor and wheels and eventually add a VFD. Also, didnt know you were right down the road from me, I'm over in North Knoxville. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Chase Hayner said:

Alan thanks for the advice, good to know they aren't required. That allows me to invest in a 2hp motor and wheels and eventually add a VFD. Also, didnt know you were right down the road from me, I'm over in North Knoxville. 

Like already mentioned, you can't use a VFD on a single phase motor. You also can't use a 3 phase motor on single phase 220v(well, not without a costly phase converter). You either go for step pulleys and a single phase motor, or VFD with 3phase motor. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Joël Mercier said:

Like already mentioned, you can't use a VFD on a single phase motor. You also can't use a 3 phase motor on single phase 220v(well, not without a costly phase converter). You either go for step pulleys and a single phase motor, or VFD with 3phase motor. 

So my first grinder is either a 3 phase with a VFD or a single phase without a vfd. I'll have to keep researching. Do you know if the VFD I posted in the first post is good enough?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Chase Hayner said:

if the VFD I posted in the first post is good enough?

Those work fine as long as you use one that's near double the power rating of your motor. So a 2.2kw is ok for a 2hp motor. I bought mine from Amazon 3-4 years ago and it's still working fine, though I make just a dozen or so blades per year. 

 

You also need to put them in a sealed enclosure. You don't want metal dust in electronics...

Edited by Joël Mercier
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Chase Hayner said:

right down the road from me

 

Yeah, you're currently two hours west of me, but I spent most of my first 28 years in Knoxville, with brief detours to California (Gilroy) and Louisiana (Leesville and New Orleans).

 

Have you hooked up with the local guild yet?  If not, do so immediately, it'll shorten your learning curve and give you an inside track on equipment and connections.  You're in the territory of the Clinch River Guild, part of the Appalachian Area Chapter of Blacksmiths.  https://aacblacksmiths.org/forge-groups/ Follow that link and scroll down, I don't want to post emails and numbers.  They aren't all into knives, but they can be a big help.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just started forging this year. I have been researching parts to put my shop together. The grinder I chose was an" Amribrade fastback" chassis. I didn't want to have to fab this. I had enough to do putting the rest of the shop together. I had an old pressure washer with a 1 1/2 hp Baldor motor(enclosed, single speed, 110v). As others have said you can't put a VFD on this motor. I chose a 4" drive wheel. It's slower, but , I feel it still eats metal for lunch. My thought was to get a 7" drive wheel and swap it if I felt like I wanted more speed. I think this might loose some of the power though. Right now I feel like this machine has sufficient power and is basically BADASS!!!! I had purchased a Rikon 6x42 with a 10" disc and ultimately returned it because the 10" disc was not true. I also have a 1x42 Belsaw belt sander. I can do everything and more on the 2x 72 and I can do it better so it's more fun. 2hp 3 phase motors are very expensive. I'm very happy with this setup. I would spend the money saved on a smaller motot and buy more accessories for shaping. you can always get a new motor later on, or look for a used baldor or the likes. I will get some pics and post them if you are interested. Forge on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Alan, I'll reach out to them, that was going to be my next question for you. Thanks Joël and John for your advice. Pretty much all I have left is deciding what chassis to build. I havnt made a decision on whether I get 2hp 3 phase with VFD or 2hp single phase, I'll just have to see what I can get the biggest bang for my buck, (and run things by the wife) But you all have given me great information to get started with. I'll keep the thread updated with my build as it progresses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm using the VFD you linked from Amazon on a 220V 3 Phase motor that is hooked to my disc grinder. It works just fine, and I like the fact I can run it in reverse. I use a KBAC 27D on my belt grinder.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good morning Chase, here are some pics of the Ameribrade grinder with the 20+ yr old motor. I know you said you don't think the tilting base would be useful, I thought the same thing until I started grinding profiles in the handle. It's nice to have a different plane so you're not bending over looking at it from the side, I can stand straight up and grind finger grooves. I would recommend it. Have fun, John

20220530_091745[1].jpg

20220530_091840[1].jpg

20220530_092147[1].jpg

20220530_092122[1].jpg

20220530_091910[1].jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 6/1/2022 at 9:49 AM, john kleemann said:

Good morning Chase, here are some pics of the Ameribrade grinder with the 20+ yr old motor. I know you said you don't think the tilting base would be useful, I thought the same thing until I started grinding profiles in the handle. It's nice to have a different plane so you're not bending over looking at it from the side, I can stand straight up and grind finger grooves. I would recommend it. Have fun, John

20220530_091745[1].jpg

20220530_091840[1].jpg

20220530_092147[1].jpg

20220530_092122[1].jpg

20220530_091910[1].jpg

Oh nice, Yea I did end up buying the plans for the tilting grinder, I have everything almost cut out and ready to weld. I think your right, it will prove to be useful after all. Thank you for the pics!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Okay, I have finished the belt grinder. She is dog ugly, the welds are shit ( but solid ), and she does have some unintentional bends and curves due to my excellent cutting and welding skills. But she runs a belt relatively straight. I have nicknamed her “Kinda Straight Sandy” (Kiss) for short..
pictures and videos to come shortly

 

Also, I managed to christen her with the blood of an idiot during her maiden test run.

I also managed to get the forge running and cured the refractory throughout the day.  Haven't burnt myself yet, that's to come.

Thanks Alan on the forge recommendation. Out of the box she runs amazing. Follow the instructions to the tee and it turns out perfect. I don't have any cracks in the refractory after doing about 10 curing burns followed by a good 15 minute full open burn just to heat up some flat bar. The burners seem to be pretty damn good quality for the price. I have nothing to base them off of but all the fittings were secure and no leaks. 

If anyone is wondering, I use the blueprints provided by Jeremy Schmidt from his Etsy. You can find the link below.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/969297008/inch-plans-gen-2-tilting-belt-grinder
These were very detailed and very well done instructions. I just have absolute shit ability to follow instructions like these. So if I was able to get something working than anyone can. I did things the hard way, with an angle grinder... I would 100% buy a band saw before doing this, 10/10 recommend this grinder, but perhaps only if you have some of the higher quality shop tools and good organization skills to put it together. The VFD and 2hp motor work great together. I had no trouble wiring them up even with my novice level electrical skills. (I did blast myself rewiring a 220 for my welder, but that wasn't entirely my fault) I intend to use a large grow tent as my grinding room with a dust collector inside and a large vacuum ( respirator worn) since I already have messed up lungs from Afghanistan, better to not fill them with metal.. may make modifications if it doesn't work out.

I also would have spent the extra money to buy a mig/tig welder. doing this with a stick welder with no welding experience was challenging. I had to grind off many pieces and reweld due to positioning errors. Luckily the final product is only a little wonky yet still functional. just needs a few coats of paint and she is ready to grind.

Thank you everyone for your feedback and look
 forward to posting my first projects here!

IMG_0676.jpg

IMG_5251 (1).jpgIMG_0677.jpg

b9918df252ae73483cd14525f2a14323.jpg

IMG_0675.jpg

Edited by Chase Hayner
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...