Power hammer 2.0

[Zeb Camper]

It certainly has a few of the necessary parts... There would need to be a spring mechanism made and attached to the bottom of the guided ram with linkages to a hammer or something like that... And cut out the bottom part and install an anvil. It would be handy just as a punch press too. Its $200 on marketplace and apparently just needs a belt. What do you think? 

Edited August 18 by Zeb Camper

[billyO]

Good morning, Zeb.  I'm curious to see where this ends up.  I had a similar thought a while ago when one of these became available, and in my conversations with fellow smiths in the area, decided that is was best to use the machine as intended as a one hit machine.  
A couple of things that gave me pause were that the legs and frame didn't seem bulky enough to resist the repetitive pounding that multiple hammer blows would produce over the long term, the limited ability to pass the work through the machine and work the middle of the bar, and the limited space under the ram would seriously limit the size of stock that one could work effectively.

But if you can make it work, I'd love to see how you do it.

 

[Matt Walker]

Those presses make a great alternative to a fly press. I had one set up for some years. This is a friend of mine using his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faoLGu_vPXc

[Geoff Keyes]

This topic comes up fairly frequently.  The difference between a hammer and a punch press is the spring link.  With it, the tup on a hammer can adjust to different thicknesses of material dynamically.  A punch press has to follow through to the end of the stroke.  In addition, the springs on a hammer add power to the strike as the speed increases.

 

What this means in real world terms is, if the punch press hit's material thicker than it is set for, something has to give.   The machine can't stall, and it can't reverse direction, all of the power of the stroke is delivered to the weakest component, which will likely bend or break.  In some cases this results in a mechanical grenade, which is placed right in front of the operator's face.

 

The short answer is no, you can't make a hammer from a punch press.  I saw a really big one that had been converted to a hydraulic press.  They stripped away most of the punch parts and used just the frame.

 

It's a bad idea, that looks lkike a really good one.

 

Geoff

 

[Alan Longmire]

I second Geoff and Matt.  They can't be made into hammers, but as a fly press they're great.  You just add a handle to the flywheel and lock the clutch, and there you go.  It can always be converted back to a punch press as well.  

 

The reason these come up often and cheap is that they are not OSHA compliant.  Industry can't use them anymore.  If you get the book "Professional Smithing" by Don Streeter https://www.amazon.com/Professional-Smithing-Traditional-Whitesmithing-Locksmithing/dp/1879335662 he has a chapter on how he uses his to punch out latch and lock parts, as well as to roll hinge barrels.  It's an excellent book for any smith.

[Matt Walker]

The biggest of these punch presses I ever saw was at this industrial facility https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmrKegtLYpU Our blacksmith guild was invited to tour their plant about 2 miles from where we normally meet in East TN, sometime in the previous century. They were using a number of huge presses that looked to me like 3 stories tall. Their thing is forging to very tight tolerance, requiring little or no machining to finish. They called them coining presses and we understood some parts that requires even closer tolerance than they could forge to, are run through these presses cold, to achieve final dimension. That night they were using a power hammer larger than the one in the video. It had 5 stations in the die and I can hear it at my house late at night, around 6 miles away from the plant.

[Zeb Camper]

Thanks for the input guys. I ended up passing on it. Ill eventually start a build a different way. I just need to track down a couple big pieces of solid steel for the hammer and anvil portions. I'm hoping at my new job I can get a perfect crank plate and maybe even a motor for scrap price.

 

That's really cool Matt! Love seeing processes like that. 

[Zeb Camper]

This wasn't my first choice of hammer designs, but the most feasible to make at the moment. Any critiques or criticisms with the preliminary design is much appreciated! 

[Jim White]

As shown, it won't spin. You show both springs attached to the connecting rod. I would start by removing the bottom spring.

Edited August 19 by Jim White

[Zeb Camper]

37 minutes ago, Jim White said:

As shown, it won't spin. You show both springs attached to the connecting rod. I would start by removing the bottom spring.

Doh! Yeah you're 100% right! I would need a separate arm between the crank and the spring assembly. I guess it doesn't need 2 springs either yeah... Not sure why I thought that made sense. Thanks! 

[Geoff Keyes]

It makes me sad to post this, both of these guys have passed on, great smiths and  great guys.  This hammer was part of the Junkyard Hammer Challenge int he '90's, which in turn led me to built my homebuilt 50# in 2000.

I give you the Original Junkyard Hammer

 

This has most of the design elements you are looking at.

 

Geoff

[Zeb Camper]

Thanks Geoff! Yeah that looks almost exactly like my thought process. I'd copy it pretty close but I just discovered one of my scrap leaf spring stacks was cracked so I'll try to make do with one. 

 

Here's a revised plan so far.

It's a 16lb hammer head. Not going to be a huge hammer by any means but with some luck I'm hoping it will still pack some punch. 

[Jan Ysselstein]

Zeb

    I am sure I am a little late on the scene and my suggestions may already exist here. I understand your creative desire to design and repurpose old stuff and make things.
1). Look at the Kinyon pneumatic power hammers ..simple and easy to build. I built one 3” cylinder 90 lbs Tupp.

ip. The configuration was too loud for me ….I did not want to annoy my neighbors. It was taken apart. Two more configurations are waiting assembly.

2) Buy that punch press and assuming the flywheel is about 18”. Diameter and flat (no groove) make it into a belt grinder. I have two and love them.

 

good luck with your projects

Edited August 20 by Jan Ysselstein

[Zeb Camper]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:23 PM, Jan Ysselstein said:

 

1). Look at the Kinyon pneumatic power hammers ..simple and easy to build. I built one 3” cylinder 90 lbs Tupp.

Thanks for the suggestions! What size air compressor do you need to run that?

Sadly I can't afford to buy a real compressor at the moment. I'm actually really strapped for funds which is why I am trying to use what I have or is obtainable for next to nothing. If I can just get something that works better than my right arm I'm happy! 

[Jan Ysselstein]

Zeb, 

          I was using a 5 hp compressor with an 80 gallon tank…a long distance to the hammer. If I was doing a lot of continuous forging it would run out of high pressure. The one  I will be assembling only has an 8” stroke compared to the 14” stroke. Should save on energy but deliver less as well ( looking for a fast slapping hammer ).

Once you have an idea of what you would like to make the materials tend to find you over time, be patient.

Edited August 21 by Jan Ysselstein