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Push dagger WIP


Joshua States

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I'm going to step out on a limb here. Typically I don't start a WIP thread until I am far enough into it that I am pretty sure it's going to work out.

This time, I'm just giving it to you as it happens. The idea is to make an integral frame handle from a 3-bar composite. This was the original forging concept.

 

Forging Concept V2.JPG

 

I have already deviated from that design somewhat.

The W's bars have been replaced with some 1095 bars and I'm probably going to ditch the small "guards" on the back end of the blade.

The blade bars are also much longer than the drawing indicates.

I am still going to split the center bar and wrap it around. I just don't know how to end the bend and make a connection yet.

Here is the initial forging. The center bar is about 17 layers (?) twisted.

 

1 three bars.jpg

 

These were welded together at the anvil: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G0yYCIk56tKiDuDM2mHchfQUYwlAR08P/view?usp=drive_link

 

 

2 Welded bars.jpg

 

Then I cut for the bird-mouth weld.

 

3 Birdmouth cut.jpg

 

This got closed at the anvil and welded shut in the swage block dish: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c0cB-_EiyNde5tpNPJKUaZOacwOeQFK_/view?usp=sharing

 

4 Welded shut.jpg

 

That was where I left off. Tomorrow I have some forge time and several projects that need doing.

This will be one of them.

Edited by Joshua States
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“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

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Today's forging exercise

First I fullered the finger loop areas on a 1" double fuller tool.

 

5 Fuller the fingers.jpg

 

Then I drew out the body, which will become the frame.

 

6 Draw out body.jpg

 

This drawing out will elongate the twisted core and I'll lose the effect of those center of the twist stars. So I took that to 1/2" square.

 

7 body at half-inch.jpg

 

And twisted it again.

 

8 Twist body.jpg

 

Then I flattend that out to about 3/8" thick and normalized a couple of times.

 

9 Flatten body.jpg

 

This is now in the Paragon going through a full annealing.

Tomorrow I need to make a new design drawing, a template, and a mock-up model out of wood.

 

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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Design drawing V2.jpg

  • Like 2

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not much of an update, but I surface ground the tail, profiled the blade shape, and scribed my edge center lines. The tip needed a little forging back to center (side to side, not edge to edge). Once I got that fixed, I drilled a small hole and split the tail.

 

1 Split bar.jpg

 

Next I need to make a form to shape the handle frame.

Maybe tomorrow or Monday. Maybe next week, IDK.

Edited by Joshua States

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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I'm not one to only post my successes. I also post my abject failures, and this is no exception.

I prepped the split bar by grinding the sides mostly even and made the form.

 

3 The form.jpg

 

Then I took a heat and spread the split open.

 

4 spread.jpg

 

Wrapped one side.

 

5 Wrap 1.jpg

 

And wrapped the other side

 

6 Wrap 2.jpg

 

Hot cut off the excess

 

7 Hot cut excess.jpg

 

Using some clamps and a push rod I tucked the ends in.

 

8 Tuck.jpg

 

Unfortunately, shortly after this phot was taken, It broke.

My fault entirely, I tried to move some cold steel. Just plain dumb.
At least I know this can work, but it will have to wait for another day.

I reached out to retired MS Larry Fuegen to ask him for advice and some pointers. He was very kind and told me about how he made this knife. 

 

Push dagger V2.jpg

 

So I switched to plan B.
More on that later.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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Posted (edited)

Plan B:

Cut the blade out of a flattened bar of twist

1 Cut blade.jpg

 

Scribe the outline of the handle on the anvil

 

2 Scibe outline.jpg

 

Take another piece of flattened twist and make a pretzel

 

3 Make a pretzel.jpg

 

Hot cut the ends and flatten

 

4 Cut & Flatten.jpg

 

Verify the form after normalizing. This needed some tweaking to work well.

 

5 Verify.jpg

Edited by Joshua States
  • Like 1

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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Posted (edited)

After adjusting the form and getting it flat via surface grinder, it's time to get it connected to the tang of the blade. I coated one side of each piece with Dykem blue and Scribed lines where to cut material away so that they interlocked.

 

Step 1.jpg

 

For this welding op I used the A/O torch and some W1 filler rod.

 

Step 2.jpg

 

Welded two points in four places.

 

Step 3.jpg

 

And filed the excess down

 

Step 4.jpg

 

A little more on the surface grinder and it's ready for H/T.

 

Step 6.jpg

 

H/T went really well. It stayed flat and true. resulting hardness is 58-59 HRC.

 

Step 7.jpg

Edited by Joshua States
  • Like 2

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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I have to admit that I don't like plunge daggers but you're craftsmanship is great.

 

Doug

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HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!!

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12 hours ago, Alan Longmire said:

Good save!  I would've brazed it with extra-hard silver solder (1700F flow), but OA works!

I thought about brazing, but I really wanted to get this all fit together before HT and I don't hae any of that fancy solder stuff.

8 hours ago, Doug Lester said:

I have to admit that I don't like plunge daggers but you're craftsmanship is great.

 

Doug

Thank you sir.

Edited by Joshua States

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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I really had to sit and think about how to do all the little steps left in this one. Getting them all in the correct order is critical. Only 13 steps left!

 

13 steps to go.jpg

Edited by Joshua States
  • Like 1

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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Today was choils, bevels, and plunge cuts. I also started the liners and prepping the scale material. 

Here are the bevels and plunge shots. Everything gets done in the file jig.

 

 

Bevels (3).jpg

Bevels (4).jpg

Bevels (5).jpg

Bevels (7).jpg

  • Like 2

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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I always appreciate seeing your progress Joshua,

 

I like the shape of these palm daggers, sadly they are very illegal where I live so making one would be a bit of a waste.

 

What kind of surface grinder do you use? I'm weighing my options for one in the future.

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8 hours ago, Pieter-Paul Derks said:

What kind of surface grinder do you use? I'm weighing my options for one in the future.

I went the (relatively) inexpensive route and got a adapter kit for my 2x72 grinder. Mine is from Weurtz Machine Works.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Today was scales and liners day. I drilled the pin holes in the liners and cut them out. Then I surfaced the scales (stabilized karelian birch) drilled the pin holes and cut them out. This is a tricky thing to do because you have to mark each side of the blade and then marke each side of each liner and scale to match with the inside faces also marked. If you get this confused, it will never fit together again. It becomes a puzzle.

Rough cut and fited scales and liners.

Rough shaped.jpg

 

Rough shaped 2.jpg

 

Finished out to 400 grit on the profile.
400 grit profile 1.jpg

 

400 grit profile 2.jpg

400 grit profile 3.jpg
 

Then, the start of what will be the trickiest part of this build. Notching for the bolster.

 

Bolster notch.jpg

 

  • Like 2

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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Last weekend I had the opportunity to make the bolsters and I cut out two pieces of 1/4" thick nickel-silver plate.

These got glued together and ground to 220 grit on three sides, both short sides being the top & bottom and one long side for general alignment.

 

Bolsters 1.jpg

 

I blacken the smooth short side and push it up against the curve they have to fit to. I scribe the curve with a pair of dividers.

 

Bolsters 2.jpg

 

Grind that curve and carefully fit it to the scales/liners.

 

Bolsters 3.jpg

 

Pick one for side 1 and one for side 2. Glue them in place one at a time and drill for the alignment pins.

Generally, I only go about 0.10" deep as these will get soldered on.

 

Bolsters 4.jpg

 

I also mark the curves of the blade stem for stock removal.

 

Bolsters 5.jpg

 

After getting them fit smooth to the stem I make tiny alignment pins and glue them to each other so I can grind the bottom curve and taper the bottom end. Here they are fit to the knife. They did get a little fine tuning on the bottom curve after this photo.It's really amazing what a photo shows you that your eye may not

Bolsters 6.jpg

Bolsters 7.jpg

Edited by Joshua States
  • Like 1

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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On 1/14/2024 at 7:50 PM, Joshua States said:

I went the (relatively) inexpensive route

 

Too late now, and they may not have been selling it when you bought the Weurtz, but Beaumont makes one for a fair bit less: https://beaumontmetalworks.com/product/sga/.

That's what I have.  A dedicated stone wheel surface grinder it ain't, but it'll flatten to +/- 0.0005" if you do your part.  

 

15 hours ago, Joshua States said:

It's really amazing what a photo shows you that your eye may not see.

 

Or even just better lighting.

 

I am really impressed with this build!  So much so that I shall be stealing using techniques inspired by this when I finally get around to putting a handle on one I made from a scrap of Cu-Mai I was given...

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3 hours ago, feltran said:

Congratulations my friend, you really have talent

I have technical skill, which is slightly different from talent in my way of thinking. :blink:

  • Haha 1

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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I decided to put vine filework on the handle liners across the top. It's been days of filing and micro adjustments.
When doing opposing sides, the filework should mirror image when the liners are pinned to each other.

 

Match 1.jpg

 

That way they look best on the handle

On handle.jpg

 

If you zoom in on that second pic, you can relly see the stars in the twist.

  • Like 4

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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this is fun to watch from black forge scale to refined white metal.....Thanks Josh.....

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Well, I finished the filework on the underside of the handle liners.

 

Underside (6).jpg

 

Underside (7).jpg

 

Some of the black background is missing. I will put that in before final glue up.

Then I soldered the bolsters on.

 

Front view.jpg

 

Side view.jpg

 

Now I get to prep liners and scales for epoxy. I need to remove some material in the liners and underside of the handle scales to form epoxy "rivits" to hold everything together.

 

 

  • Like 1

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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