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First foray into pattern damascus


Jim White

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Started a pattern and I'm not really happy with the results so far. It's coming out WAY to busy for my taste. What is the standard for counting layers? Do you count each separate piece, (logically so) or each separate type of metal? Started with 12 1084 and 12 15n20. By my count, I'm up to 2208 layers with one more weld for the tiles. I'm making a few different sized knives from the billet, so I have a different count of tiles in them, but I ended up with 18 tiles. Would that add up to 39k+ layers if all welded together?

 

I think going forward, I'll make the first stack far fewer separate layers and multi-stack the same metal a lot thicker. I did have 2 thicker layers in the first stack, but they squashed down pretty far.

 

I'll try to get the photos here before time runs out. 

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Edited by Jim White
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I'm not sure what you mean by counting pieces, as most folks just count the layers in the billet making.  Think about the historical way it was done, 2 steels folded over and over.  2->4->8->16->32->64->128->256, etc  WIth power tools we can do that much quicker.  I typically start with a 15 layer billet (eight 15N20 pieces and seven 1084) cutting each billet into 4 pieces so I get 15->60->240.

In my opinion, once you get up to about 500 layers they start getting too thin to provide much contrast, 

 

Another thing to think about is carbon migration with successive longer/hotter heats.  With 15N20 as your bright layer, this isn't much to worry about as it's basically 1084 with added nickel.  But if you use a low carbon steel in your mix, you need to pay attention to that so the final carbon content is enough to provide a useful tool. 

Edited by billyO
RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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Not sure why you started with a mosaic pattern for your first go, but hey go large or go home right?

It looks like it should be a nice mosaic, but I don't really know where you are in the process. Your photos don't make much sense to me in the order you presented them. They almost look backwards in terms of progression.

Most mosaics start with very thick layers in the initial billet, because the manipulation process results in multiple forging down and thinner layers in the end result.

Mosaic patterns aren't typically considered in terms of layer count anyway. The layer count is mostly just applied to either flat or twisted patterns. If I were to place a layer count on an end grain pattern, such as a mosaic like yours or a standard W's pattern, it would only relate to the number of layers in a single tile. Billy has identified the way most people count layers. Your number in the 1000's is not an accurate way to count the layers. 

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

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18 hours ago, Joshua States said:

Not sure why you started with a mosaic pattern for your first go, but hey go large or go home right?

It looks like it should be a nice mosaic, but I don't really know where you are in the process. Your photos don't make much sense to me in the order you presented them. They almost look backwards in terms of progression.

Most mosaics start with very thick layers in the initial billet, because the manipulation process results in multiple forging down and thinner layers in the end result.

Mosaic patterns aren't typically considered in terms of layer count anyway. The layer count is mostly just applied to either flat or twisted patterns. If I were to place a layer count on an end grain pattern, such as a mosaic like yours or a standard W's pattern, it would only relate to the number of layers in a single tile. Billy has identified the way most people count layers. Your number in the 1000's is not an accurate way to count the layers. 

Thanks for the info, it's the path I was thinking. I didn't start with mosaic pattern, it's just my first. I've done twist and ladder before, and now that I have my power tools up and running, I wanted to give it a go. Almost everything has gone as planned, except for the final pattern, just too busy. Since there haven't been any weld failures (yet) it has been a huge success. I now know the various layers need to be thicker at the start to be visible at the end. That's something that was never really explained in the many videos I watched. So, I'll be looking to buy thicker stock for any future builds as opposed to more layers. The photos were clicked on as I went down the gallery, so yeah, they're backwards in sequence.

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2 hours ago, Jim White said:

So, I'll be looking to buy thicker stock for any future builds as opposed to more layers.

You can just use multiple pieces of thin stock rather than buying thicker stock.

So what does the final pattern look like? The pattern I see in the 4-way pic looks pretty dang good to me.

“So I'm lightin' out for the territory, ahead of the scared and the weak and the mean spirited, because Aunt Sally is fixin’ to adopt me and civilize me, and I can't stand it. I've been there before.”

The only bad experience is the one from which you learn nothing.  

 

Josh

http://www.dosgatosdesignsllc.com/#!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdJMFMqnbLYqv965xd64vYg

J.States Bladesmith | Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/dos.gatos.71

https://www.etsy.com/shop/JStatesBladesmith

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I haven't welded the tiles yet and I didn't etch them other than the end cuts in the first pic. Will weld them tomorrow evening. Working 11's on nightshift and life in general throws a wrench in the process. It's taken me 6 weeks to get this far. Haha

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Ya, third shift can suck.  I worked it for several years and, you're right, it's hard to get anything done.

HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!!

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On 3/23/2024 at 3:43 PM, Doug Lester said:

Ya, third shift can suck.  I worked it for several years and, you're right, it's hard to get anything done.

Mine is more swing. 3pm-2am.

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That 11 shift still doesn't give you much time to do much of anything.  I hope you can work some family time in with that.

 

Doug

HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!!

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Posted (edited)

Got the tiles welded this weekend. Pretty happy with the results. I need to work at removing the sealing welds better before re-stacking. It seems to have welded good, will find out when I start stretching it out. Any other critique will be appreciated.  

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Edited by Jim White
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Looks good to me. 

Looking forward to the final product.

RIP Bear....be free!

 

as always

peace and love

billyO

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Are keeping a diary of what you are doing? the memory fades quick...... especially when you are sleep deprived.......looks like you got it welded .....congrats

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