AEB-L for chef knife, with a hamon?

[Gary LT]

I’d like to make a chef knife for a Christmas gift and I love the way @Joël Mercier did the one he posted in the topic ”Slicer”. (Photo attached)

These days I am focused on 52100 and AEBL predominantly (with a little 115crv3 here lately). 
I use Udderholm AEB-L and I get very good results quenching between 2 metal plates, if I go for a hamon as Joel did, I would use a oil quench but certainly not sure there is enough carbon in AEB-L to show bold enough hamon.

Just seeking “2 cents” (advice!) from all who would like to offer input.

My thanks, Gary LT

[Alex Roy]

The issue you are dealing with in AEB-L is much more a function of hardenability and quench rate than it is a function of carbon content. 

AEB-L can cool in almost still air in basically reach max hardness. The reason why a hamon forms is that across the material (assuming mono steel) you have a rapid enough cooling difference that you have several types of microstructure form (Martensite predominantly on the edge, Pearlite on the spine for example). With the high hardenability of the steel I do not think it is possible for you to form a hamon, let alone the alloying elements muddle things significantly even if it was possible. I suspect folks that are far more knowledgeable will chime in on this subject.

 

TLDR: Simple Carbon Steels (1084) Form hamons because they are low hardenability and very small difference is cooling rate change microstructure across the blade)

[Joël Mercier]

Hello Gary and thanks.

 

Of the 3 steels you mentioned, only the 115crv3 has a somewhat good hamon potential. It has slightly higher chrome content than 26c3, but it takes roughly twice as much chrome than manganese for the same hardenability improvement(we want low hardenability in this case), so it may still yield decent activity. Never used the steel though, so take this with a pinch of salt. 

 

As for the shape of my blade, don't forget it's 12" long and perhaps not ideal as a chef knife. It was designed to slice meat in a single stroke but can quickly become awkward to use in other tasks. I would suggest not to make it longer than 9"(this is still a long chef!) and make it a bit wider at the heel. 

 

Have fun!

 

[Gary LT]

@Alex Roy thank you Alex. I understand your explanation and I appreciate the input/answer. Yeah, I’ll probably just do AEB-L without any elaborate attempts to reinvent something!

@Joël Mercier thank you Joel as well! I don’t plan a slicer, just a simple chef “working” knife, standard length and I plan 2” at the heel. I can do more treatment on the handle and wooden sheath to add visual interest. He’s particular and will appreciate a knife which is balanced and holds an edge much longer than what he has now.

 

Much appreciated! Gary LT

[Joël Mercier]

Gotcha, but why not try a hamon with 115crv3? Worse that can happen is a poorly defined line than you can decide not to show in the final product. Having a softer spine also makes straightening the blade a breeze. 

 

Common, do it! 

 

[Gary LT]

Well, I could go with 115crv3, except it is in 12mm drill rod form which I would not be able to forge it out to 2” wide and lots of heats to shape it, as is right now. Right now I can double any length cut, get 4mm in thickness and about 1 3/4” in width from this 12mm. As you work the steel to a maximum, you reach a point of diminished returns. I may try it anyway! 

I thought about mustard patina, which I’ve tried before…..ehhh….. just can’t get a good enough presentation to suit me.

I did a core AEB - L with wrought over and it came out beautiful. I’ve also done folders and edge holding is excellent with no tarnish in use, so I thought chef! 

But I am open for any thought or suggestions!

Gary LT

[Joël Mercier]

Any update?

[Gary LT]

Hey Joel, working on it!
Went with AEB-L for a chef knife for him. Had some it stock @ 1.5” wide and will do a smaller 7” K-Tip first and ordered 2” wide which just came in. I need to get a few other orders completed as well first but I will post once this is completed.

For the 115crV3, I had some Puukko knives to finish first.

Thanks for asking!

Gary LT

Edited December 3, 2024 by Gary LT

[Gary LT]

Here it is, as promised, and he is ecstatic! Doesn’t own anything close in performance.
The blade edge is only 7”, enough to get acclimated in using this, as it is extremely sharp.

I love this steel, AEB-L. Held at 1950 for 15 minutes in stainless foil, then plate quenched until just warm enough to handle, then into the freezer for 45 minutes, (as that’s all I have). Then heat treated at 300F, 1hr x 2.

Stock removal on the 2x72” to get the blade angle, then stone sharpened 500, 1000 and finally 3000 honed on the edge. Progress hand sanding from 400, to 800, to 1500.

Karelian birch and bocote handle, could have made smaller but it fits his hands.

 

Gary LT

Edited December 25, 2024 by Gary LT

[Joël Mercier]

Clean work, well done!

[Gary LT]

Thank you Joel, dog-gone stone sharpening took forever…. It seemed!

Planned more chefs and I will try the 115crV3 next…..

Happy Holidays,

Gary LT 

[Alan Longmire]

Looks great, Gary!  I know what you mean about the sharpening. 

 

I made a similar (but not nearly as nice!) santoku for a friend last Christmas. That thing is such a laser he's almost afraid to use it!   Says nothing else in the house comes close, sharp-wise, and he now has a new respect for what a good knife can be.  But after all, that's what we're here for, eh?

[Gary LT]

Thanks Alan! I appreciate the shared experience. Testing in process and at the finishing stages were all postive. This blade angle is so narrow/small yet no sign of weakness, chips, dulled edges, etc……I am anxious to see how well it does in real use, as I plan some more “gifting” in the future. Also one for myself! (Like I ain’t got enough already)

 

Gary LT

[Dick Sexstone]

Gary,

that looks like a good user....Nice....... the colors are yummy.....How thin did it wind up? Have you tried using  diamond "stones"?

[Joël Mercier]

I have found that a good set of synthetic ceramic stones(I have the Glass stones from Sharpton) will cut much faster than natural water stones on harder steels. I have yet to use diamond stones but I currently don't feel the need to. Though I don't use "super steel" knives...

[Brian Dougherty]

I'm late to the party Gary, but that looks great!  

[Gary LT]

@Dick Sexstone, Hey Dick, the edge was under 1mm when I held it to 1950F for 15 minutes. I did not micrometer it. My belt work began by setting starting bevels at the edge and progressing to full flat grind. I do have a slight convex edge.
The blade is 1.5” wide, I maintained a spine distance off the stone of just under 3mm, (2 penny's width), (made a guide to help me). You can do the math but using a goniometer I’m getting 8 degrees total.

@Joël Mercier, I’ll look into the Sharpton glass stones, as I haven’t had a need to date. I used small pocket knife Naniwa stone,

at 500,  then a larger stone for 1000/3000, (DDF), certainly not Sharpton but I got through it well enough.

@Brian Dougherty, thank you Brian. It took a long time and a lesson in patience. Now I got to get some more Karelian / Masur Birch…..(economically if anyone has a recommended “go-to” supplier)

Well…..come on warm weather!!, let’s make some more!

 

Gary LT

[Christopher Cramer]

Nice work! Just a question on the difference between many chef knives in the shape of the tip of the blade. Most chef knives that are made by commercial companies have the shape of a progressive tangent arc on the top as well as the bottom to make for the sharp tip. Do any of you think there is any advantage to that in comparison to most custom knives that have a straight sharp drop point like yours?

[Gary LT]

Thanks for asking. The tip isn’t the area which will see the most usage in cutting or general preparation. This K-Tip has less curvature in the edge and the entire blade edge can be used to cut - chop - dice - slice. The pointed shape you described assists better when slicing, (as Joel pointed out on his knife). I see the edge of the curved area getting dull first, resting it on cutting board or whatever they choose to use doing prep work.

And I’m speaking of average people, ( not experienced chefs), who want to show me the knives they been using.

Gary LT
 

Edited July 28 by Gary LT
Grammar