Islamic Quenchants

[kb0fhp]

I have been doing a lot of research, and found out a lot of information regarding quenchants used, and the methodology of quenching. However, I have not been able to find any good references for quenching from Islam. Could anyone please help - for instance with the quenchant, and the source? That would be a HUGE help. I am under a huge deadline and I shouldn't have undertaken such a huge topic with such a short deadline.

 

Thanks you for any help that you can provide.

 

Scott

[mete]

There are lots of goats in the Islamic world , so goats urine could be a source !!! Just an educated guess !.......I wonder if smeone on www.swordforums.com could be of help.

Edited May 23, 2006 by mete

[kb0fhp]

I have been trying to get my account activated - to no avail.

[DFogg]

Scott,

 

The Islamic countries used wootz steel for their blades and the cutting ability of that steel depends on the lamilar carbide structure and not so much on full conversion to martensite. I will look for sources, but from what I remember most of it was air hardened. Galloping horsemen are mentioned, but more likely windfunnels were used if anything at all.

 

"Their scimitars are very well damasked and exceed all that the Europeans can do, because I suppose our steel is not so full of veins as the Indian steel, which they use most commonly. They forge their blades cold, and before they dip them, they rub them with allow, oil or butter to hinder them from breaking, they they temper them with vinegar and coperas, which being of a corroding nature, shows these streaks or veins, which they call Damask work." Sir John Chardin's Travels in Persia, London, 1927 pp. 270-271

 

Check with John Verhoven, Iowa State University he has done extensive laboratory and research into wootz.

[Greg Thomas Obach]

Middle eastern quenches.. or oriental (islamic implies religious quench... which is odd ?)

 

 

Al-Kindi wrote abit on true tempering of these swords..

 

Brian Gilmour's book "persian steel the (tannavolli sp?) collection " has lots of info on crucible steel

 

some quenches were bizarre ingredients rubbed on with a towel...

 

holding the sword in front of a crack in the wall.....for the airblast

 

quenching in Hemp oil

 

quenched in sesame oil, mutton suet, virgin wax , and naphtha

 

theres lots more... just have to dig abit

 

Greg

[Bennett]

I have been trying to get my account activated - to no avail.

Try agian. It takes a few days before you can post. Your name does not show up on the member list.

SFI has a good middle east blade forum. Jerry

[Richard Furrer]

Scott,

I have started a posting over there for you and I'll tend/prod it a few times.

 

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.ph...&threadid=67226

 

and here

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.ph...&threadid=67227

 

 

 

You should find that the "usual" old methods are used for quenching including water,oil,air and such as well as swords wrapped in wet muslin cloth and allowed to cool and smoke the cloth away.

The story of the sword being handed to a horseman is interesting and would work with wootz, but I have yet to see a true "documentation" of this technique and I put it in the same category of the "slave quench" till I see such a record.

 

I will have Dr. Ann Feurbach chime in on this if she has a moment.

 

I suggest you also contact the Archmettalurgy list in England

http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/arch-metals.html

They have an active list of folk there.

 

Ric

[kb0fhp]

Scott,

 

The Islamic countries used wootz steel for their blades and the cutting ability of that steel depends on the lamilar carbide structure and not so much on full conversion to martensite. I will look for sources, but from what I remember most of it was air hardened. Galloping horsemen are mentioned, but more likely windfunnels were used if anything at all.

 

"Their scimitars are very well damasked and exceed all that the Europeans can do, because I suppose our steel is not so full of veins as the Indian steel, which they use most commonly. They forge their blades cold, and before they dip them, they rub them with allow, oil or butter to hinder them from breaking, they they temper them with vinegar and coperas, which being of a corroding nature, shows these streaks or veins, which they call Damask work." Sir John Chardin's Travels in Persia, London, 1927 pp. 270-271

 

Check with John Verhoven, Iowa State University he has done extensive laboratory and research into wootz.

 

The idea of applying something prior to quenching, is similar to what the Japanese did:

al-Biruni, writing in the Kitab al-jamahir fi ma'rifat al-jawahir, in the 11th century AD, specifies what dawa is in Indian practice. He writes “…in the process of quenching the sword they coat the flat of the blade (matn) with hot clay, cow dung and salt, like an ointment, and clean the two edges with two fingers….” This is similar to the process of making Japanese blades, and the application of yakaba-tsuchi clay. wiping it off with two fingers imples the "negative" method in application of clay.

 

I appreciate that reference - it will be a help. I have to finish this article up quickly - it is due at the publisher on Friday!

 

Scott

 

Richard:

 

Thank you! I appreciate it. I really should have searched the archives prior to asking the question. I won't make the same mistake again.

 

I subscribed to the arch-metals newsgroup - very interesting stuff. THey have been extremely helpful.

 

I am waiting on the activation of my account in the sword forum....

 

Thank you

 

Scott