Jump to content
John Smith

I want to see your Hamon

Recommended Posts

That's going to be spectacular Mr.Bolf. That's a very informative series of photos as well. Thanks!

What steel specifically?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man i like that bowie and the Bailey blades too! Really amazing stuff guys, i have been breaking blades lately so nothing new here :angry:

 

Mr Bolf, that is a great set of photos, very helpful and amazing sword do share some specifics..

 

 

Someone should start a thread showing clay layouts and the finished effect after yak ire . Would be a great reference to have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man i like that bowie and the Bailey blades too! Really amazing stuff guys, i have been breaking blades lately so nothing new here :angry:

 

Mr Bolf, that is a great set of photos, very helpful and amazing sword do share some specifics..

 

 

Someone should start a thread showing clay layouts and the finished effect after yak ire . Would be a great reference to have.

 

 

i know exactly what you mean,but im not sure it would be as of much help as you may think...hamon's have a mind of their own and there are a lot of factors that can change things quite a bit, so there really isnt any "lay out your clay like this and it will look like this" in the world of hamons...with that said, i still think its a great idea just to see different layouts and techniques people use and what they have learned...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really a hamon. Temperline.....hold the clay.

IMG_1630.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike you are so right, hamons do have a mind of their own. But in the rare instances I will get one that will follow the clay exactly and that is, in my opinion where the true skill and love of the hamon is. I think that the type of mono steels that we use makes it almost impossible to get an exact pattern. Unlike our Japanese counterparts who have mastered this skill and use a type of steel that may not be a good as the steels we have today, but rather the mixture of steels they used, that lead to their ability to control the layout of the hamons. And in that I say is the real love of the hamon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i agree 100%...if they where an exact science, then the art and mystery behind it would be lost...don't get me wrong, a person can achieve a great deal of control, but even the best smith using the finest tamhagane won't be able to get exacting results 100% of the time...this is what makes it so fun...and dare i say, can teach us on a philisophical level to let go and understand that there really is so little we truly have control over...sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy the outcome...whatever that may be...besides, im glad my hamons have a mind of their own because they often come out with much nicer effects than i could have have planned for...i kind of think of he heat treat as when the blade is born...and like anything else, you can predict with some kind of accuracy what a child will look like from knowing the parents, but you never really know for sure...

Edited by Mike Fegan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you haven't seen this video, it's not only amazing but relevant to this discussion.

Talk about control and serendipity in equal measure.. He judges the potential hamon by the iron/carbon composition during the very early stages of the forging the steel and then gets the hamon he wants without clay... Man... talk about mastery.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_voOugYgag

 

But... I've found that with careful control of the heat and using Parks50 to quench, you can pretty much determine, within reason, what the hamon will do. The key is even heating. (well and geometry.. and... and.... :wacko::P )

Edited by SBranson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that it isn't an exact science and there are variables, but there has to be a differentiation in the clay patterns somewhat, a basic pattern for each style that isn't a variation of a type. It would be nice to have a reference and a basic idea that if all things go well will possibly save folks from doing something that doesn't turn out well. At the very least it would be cool to see how the finished product is different than the layout etc..

 

 

Brent

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you Brent and I still scour the internet for pictures showing the before/after. Walter Sorrells' video on hamons is good for showing clay ideas but unfortunately doesn't show the effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man i like that bowie and the Bailey blades too! Really amazing stuff guys, i have been breaking blades lately so nothing new here :angry:

 

Mr Bolf, that is a great set of photos, very helpful and amazing sword do share some specifics..

 

 

Someone should start a thread showing clay layouts and the finished effect after yak ire . Would be a great reference to have.

 

Thanks Brent.

 

Here's a before and after Yakiire on the Bowie. I have more of them, if you like I'll post more.

Bowie02Clay.jpg

Bowie01Clay.jpg

 

I don't think there's too much to learn from these for anybody else, but I do them to see how close I can get with what changes to my routine.

As you can see I'm not close at all yet. :wacko:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that it isn't an exact science and there are variables, but there has to be a differentiation in the clay patterns somewhat, a basic pattern for each style that isn't a variation of a type. It would be nice to have a reference and a basic idea that if all things go well will possibly save folks from doing something that doesn't turn out well. At the very least it would be cool to see how the finished product is different than the layout etc..

 

 

Brent

i see what you mean...and i still say it would be a nice resource...i think if a thread like that was started, it's greatest use would be in the discussion of why a hamon turned out like it did...you know, the "whys" behind the effects...as an example, if you place ashi in the same layout, but on one blade the ashi meet the body of the clay sharply, and form crisp angles at the intersection, it will look different than on a blade where the ashi were more runded where it meets the body of the clay...little things like that in discussion could give people a better idea of how to attempt to achieve the effect that they are after...and im sure there are plenty of people on these forums that have made their own observations and have noticed patterns of "why" things might happen...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i see what you mean...and i still say it would be a nice resource...i think if a thread like that was started, it's greatest use would be in the discussion of why a hamon turned out like it did...you know, the "whys" behind the effects...as an example, if you place ashi in the same layout, but on one blade the ashi meet the body of the clay sharply, and form crisp angles at the intersection, it will look different than on a blade where the ashi were more runded where it meets the body of the clay...little things like that in discussion could give people a better idea of how to attempt to achieve the effect that they are after...and im sure there are plenty of people on these forums that have made their own observations and have noticed patterns of "why" things might happen...

 

Mike,

The post Marius just made and the video as well are very helpful. The video leaves us with a lot of guess work, but we can fill in the blanks, even if we are incorrect ( temporarily). My hunch is, anyone taking this topic up as a project or hobby will soon like doing experiments and learn to trust his/her own observations.

 

Jan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike,

The post Marius just made and the video as well are very helpful. The video leaves us with a lot of guess work, but we can fill in the blanks, even if we are incorrect ( temporarily). My hunch is, anyone taking this topic up as a project or hobby will soon like doing experiments and learn to trust his/her own observations.

 

Jan

 

Jan, i agree...i was addressing other peoples desire for such a thread...and i am of the opinion that if people think that kind of reference will help them progress, then i am all for it...and, knowing this forum, im sure it would lead to some great discussion on the subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a couple of mine. I'm not quite where I want to be but am slowly getting there through trial and error, lots and lots of error!

 

both are 1075

 

7625256576_d6d124492d_c.jpg

7625256762_cf892f0468_c.jpg

 

7510756250_1c9b484440_z.jpg

7510754548_ac18d7a049_z.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool thread! I think these types of heat treatments are endless in variety and in technique/approach.

Great to see how others do what they do.

 

In that interest, I have showed some process images of two blades I was playing around with contrasting finishes,

using clay and juxtaposing the refinement of that with forged finish and rough belt finish.

 

I was happy both, but really excited about how the primary and secondary coating of the clay showed-up on the large camp knife.

 

I hope you enjoy the images.

 

-DON:)

 

jensen1.jpg

 

jensen.jpg

 

rhamon1.jpg

 

hamoncamp1.jpg

 

 

AND the one of the first times doing a clay-less hamon in W2. I was pretty happy with this one:)

 

ffslicer3a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...