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Christopher Price

Larry Harley's Hammer-In Video

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I've been working hard lately to have a finished version of the video I took at Larry's this last May. Of course, I can't post the whole thing online, or there'd be no reason to sell it - but here's a taste, the introduction. Following that are largely unedited portions of the demonstrations given by Mike Blue, Ric Furrer, Al Pendray, Ethan Becker (including the cutting competition), and the smelter operation. There's bits and pieces of the attendees, the Iron In The Hat, and Saturday's party. But overall, this is meant to be a DVD where people can watch and learn, over and over again. Invaluable to those who couldn't make it, and I find myself watching certain pieces over again to cement my own knowledge.

 

Introduction to Harley's Hammer-In Video

 

I'll set a price for the DVD once it's finally done, and I'm not taking orders quite yet, but I wanted to whet everyone's appetite and gauge the enthusiasm for this sort of product.

 

With any luck, I'll do the same for Bowie's next weekend. This isn't to say you shouldn't come - the videos are great, but no substitute for actually being there. I'll be on the watch for the infamous Bull Chipmonk. This I gotta see.

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Are Bowie or Larry gettng any of the proceeds from these?

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Chris,

 

 

your movie-skills are good... it's well cut (a rarity for most "homemade" movies) and the quality is good.

 

thanks ...

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I am glad to see that someone has documented the hammerin. These are often once in a lifetime events, the rare confluence of people and experience that will never be repeated. It would be great if we could have it all recorded if only for the historical value.

 

I trust that you have worked out rights and obligations and look forward to seeing you post it for sale.

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A good tease Prizzim. Keep everyone posted on the premier dates. I bet Alan could get us the downtown Bristol Theater and we could convince Larry to black tie the occasion... :D

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I was only planning on charging my production costs - not making a killing on other people's work. I verbally checked with each of the demonstrators before shooting them, and I believe I mentioned potential sale later - nobody's asked for a cut to date.

 

If anyone thinks I'm taking advantage of anyone, speak up. I can stop right now, or work out a deal with the interested parties. I thought I was doing the community a service by making it available in the first place.

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Chris, that is a good lookin' video. I can't wait to see the rest of it. Good memories.

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I was there when Chris asked Larry and the demonstrators if they minded, and nobody did. Since he's not selling these for profit, I'd think a basic release would cover it, as all the demonstrators I've ever met were men of their word.

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For the record, neither Larry nor any of the demonstrators has questioned what I'm doing, it's coming from others. I would like to point out that I sacrificed significant time to capture over 7 hours of meaningful video, time that I could have spent "participating" the way I paid Larry to do in the first place. I have spent over 15 hours working the downloading and editing, and my time is indeed worth something. I need a few more hours to finish the work, then print DVD's, and ship them to people who want to see it. This doesn't come for free. No knifemaker would consider his professional time worthless and donate it, even if the materials he got were from a hammerin... so how is my work any less valuable? Both a knife, and a video about knifemakers, are intellectual property.

 

I'm working hard here to avoid any accusation of inappropriate behavior, but I think some just don't understand the nature of what it is I'm doing. If this were a 10 minute clip, I'd think differently about it, but it's well over that, and much work is required to make it easy for people to watch, and get the most out of it.

 

My biggest mistake was not doing the release forms up front. The idea was almost a lark, hatched as I was packing for the trip. When I got there I checked with Larry and the demonstrators, and took their verbal "ok" as good enough. Now others are stirring the pot, and since my integrity outweighs my business sense, I'm holding it back until the air clears. Most useful would be a statement from Larry and those I captured on tape saying "No problem, Chris". Before I film anything at Ron's, paperwork will be done first... or I may just not bother. I remember bringing this up months ago, the idea of producing knifemaking videos, and everyone seemed enthusiastic about it... but to do it as a business means I have to cover my backside beyond reproach, and that sure does suck the fun out of it.

 

If the video of Larry's is done this week, as I hope, then I'll bring a copy to show at Ron's for public awareness, if people want to see it.

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Well said. I think the questions were out of concern for either exploitation for personal gain, or for your own behind. :ph34r:

 

Folks, Chris is not in this for personal gain, he's a straight-up guy. Take it in the spirit in which it was intended, and add a clause to your hammerin release forms to the effect that the event may be filmed. No knifemakers were harmed in the filming of this hammerin, that sort of thing. As Randal Graham is wont to say, it's all good. B) It's really not much different from taking good photos, after all.

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I didn't read either of the questions about clearances/permissions as accusations of inappropriate behavior. They could also be considered as concern for YOU Chris! What if you started selling these and one of the demonstrators said "hey, you didn't have my permission. I'm suing you!" You spent a lot of time doing this and you're pretty much charging material costs- the main issue here is that you are charging for it. If you were giving it away but had a recommended donation to cover costs, that might make it look different ;) ;) A few bucks to replace a blank DVD and to cover postage ain't gonna cover legal fess to defend against a rogue demonstrator who is looking to make a few bucks at your expense AND it'll make you look like the bad guy to boot...

 

Definitely work it out post event this time and for the next event see if you can't get an information sheet out there letting people know that you will be filming and that the video will be made available for sale. In most jurisdictions if you're in public (or at an open to the public event) your likeness can be used without permission and the resultant work can be sold without the subject being compensated (label it "Blacksmith's Gone Wild!!!" ;) ). IIRC the NWBA has arider on their release forms that says all images, video, audio, etc taken at the conference is property of the NWBA and can't be resold without their permission.

Maybe next time the information sheet about filming will get the word out and you'll sell more videos, too :)

Please continue to preserve the knowledge that these folks have and are willing to share.

Edited by Kristopher Skelton

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I have used in the past, and have a current video release form. It's not that I don't know how to use it, I didn't think I needed one in this case. I guess I was wrong.

 

Ron's asked me to consider his event a free one, and not to charge if I take any video of it. I need to consider all the input before I make a decision on what I do from this point.

 

Thank you all for your comments.

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I for one think this is great, and am confident that it can be done in a way so that everyone is happy.

 

I wish every single hammer-in were recorded, and I would buy all the DVDs/tapes produced assuming they had reasonable price tags.

 

Bladesmiths are so very open and generous when compared to many other professions. I really hope that more videos--both of hammer-ins and individual skills/projects--are produced in the future.

 

John

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Well, first of all congratulations on documenting Larry's hammer in and *Thank You* because I know how much work and sacrifice this (video producing) can be. It's about passion and doing good for the craft and the people associated and I feel your excellent intentions. Christopher, and you are aces in my book. B)

 

There are always nay sayers and skeptical people (I'm a skeptic....) who wanna ask questions about every gift and question the motives of every contibutor but I applaud you for you selfless documentation and *I* appreciate your level of commitment and the discipline it takes to make this available. Yeah, I'm an incurable romantic, I'm a man, I cry when dogs die, and I still believe that it's about the intent.

 

Please don't judge the people who are questioning your motives or implying that maybe you are trying to cash in and reap a profit from your endeavors to document something that *really* needs documenting. It's the 21st century and I am another one of us who is desperately trying to understand why everything has to be about money, every time, oh yeah, give me the big bucks or shut it baby, uh-huh. :o:angry::unsure:

 

Ya done good. Sleep good...thank you.

 

Brian

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Could you just mail a consent form and a SASE to the folks who have already given you their verbal OK? Once the papers are in order, no one should have anything to complain about. I for one think this video is a great idea, especially since I have attended this outstanding event twice (thanks again Larry Harley!) but I could not make it this past year.

 

Michael

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I have used in the past, and have a current video release form. It's not that I don't know how to use it, I didn't think I needed one in this case. I guess I was wrong.

 

Ron's asked me to consider his event a free one, and not to charge if I take any video of it. I need to consider all the input before I make a decision on what I do from this point.

 

Thank you all for your comments.

 

 

prizzim, I think what Ron is saying is that his event is free. None of the demonstrators are paid a dime. Nobody is required to take part in the IITH. The only cost involved is getting there. The demonstrators feel that they are giving back to the knife making community by giving of their time. I know Ron has given a huge amount of time already, and the hammerin has not even started. The spirit of this event is of giving and sharing.

 

 

I think the videos are a great idea. Ron just does not want to be involved with anymore legalities. Ron does not care for anyone videoing the event, he just doesn't want to see it turned into a commercial event. I hope nobody thinks I am putting words in Ron's mouth. I have spoken with him before posting.

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Bill, this illustrates the difference between Ron's and Larry's events. I believe they're both invaluable to the knifemaking community, and so I like to think that documentation is appreciated everywhere, but it's clear that different approaches need to be made. If I do indeed produce Ron's, it will be purely on a volunteer basis, keeping in the spirit of his event. Least I can do.

 

Maybe I can make enough off Larry's to cover it. :D

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For the record I wasnt implying anything. It was a question I was curious if it was a benefit thing or somthing.

Perhaps I should have elaborated more so it may have come off harsher then it was ment or suspicious, which I wasnt. If so i apologize. AND i do think and infact have been asking several folks to film the hammer ins both of my friends put on and invite me to every year. Montana is just to far away.

Edited by Romey

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I don't mind Chris doing this......I'd like a copy, but other than that....no issue here. ;)

 

Ric

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Great video,love to have a copy. Let me know how much and when.

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Everything's on hold until I either fix or replace my home computer. It crapped the bed as soon as I got home from Ron's.

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i think its a great idea to film these events and share the knowlege that some might not be able to gain otherwise. should you give them away...not a chance, time is money and materials cost somthing to (DVD's, mailing ect..) i dont think it would be a reasonable thing to assume that these would be free even though going to the hammer in itself is free. i think everybody here understands that and was just worried about you trying to do the right thing then getting crapped on after the fact because you wernt willing to take a loss while producing these (and rightly so!). i may have to look into getting one of these somtime!

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Now I actually have to sit down and finish the darn thing.

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Hey Chris,

 

I watched the intro to your work and I am impressed!! There are so many reasons to do something like this, and I for one appreciate your efforts. How else can I see some of the living legends of bladesmithing? I've only read about what you have actually shaken hands with, and in the forseeable future I'm not going to be in a position where I can meet, greet, and participate in such events. It's not just about me though, there are yet unborn generations of bladesmiths who will benefit from your efforts.

 

I most admire the fellow who, when many people say that something should be done, does this thing that should be done. You took the bull by the horns, and got it done. Outstanding!

 

You don't know me Chris (yet), but I think it is a fine thing you do.

 

Tom Driscoll

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