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bigotry or bad business?


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hi ... :unsure:

warning - those easily shocked might not want to read this .. or people who dont like long, ranting posts, also may contain traces of peanut.

 

im someone hesitant in starting this topic.. afterall, im new and people dont know me ... and i dont know them

but something has been playing on me for a couple days and i wanted to know others opinions and if they thought what i did was right ...

 

the situation:

 

on .. err thursday i think, after finishing someones order, i called them up and told them that their order was ready to be picked up.

they said how they were having car troubles lately and they would come around asap ... but, i figured it would be nice to take a drive .. so i drove out there with my partner. We eventually found the place and i kissed my partner on the cheek and told her i would be make in a moment.

 

when i got inside .. apparently this guy had seen this and kept mumbling about how im basically digusting and that had he known, he wouldnt of bought this blade from me .. it was quiet, but loud enough to hear.

his pal in the corner of the room thought the whole thing was terribly funny and couldnt stop giggling.

 

now .. at this point ... im holding a blade in hand and hearing these remarks ...

but i refrained from the obvious and simply told him that was no problem .. i wouldnt be selling to him anyhow .. and promptly left, telling him that his deposit will be sent to him in due course.

 

now ... i know that this person is a lot more active among the knife collectors than i am ..

and i know that this will not favour me well ..

and hell .. i could of used that cash ..

 

but .. id love to hear what you guys think?

 

id of thought that the only thing that mattered was the fact that i produced the blade to th ebest of my ability.. why would it matter how alternative my lifestyle was?

 

if you saw a perfect blade laying on a table during a knifeshow .. would it matter who was selling it?

 

lemme know.

(within reason) :(

 

Dee.

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I think sexual preference should have no bearing on the quality of a persons craftsmanship. Unless your talking about those horribly homophobic graphitic grain boundries (sly and sinister ones they are)

All kidding aside, I feel you were justified in your reaction. When someone puts into question someones work because of chosen lifestyle, there ignorance can not be compinsated by monotary gain.

 

Do what you gotta do.

Dont let money take your pride and dont let pride take your money.

Edited by Alex Roy
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I can't see what that has to do with it. So what, if he doesn't like the quality of your work or your price and complains that's one thing. I know how it feels to need money but, I would of left too. You were right with what you did. Chin up. Jim

Edited by Jim P
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I agree with the two fellas that posted before me. Except for one thing. I believe that you should keep this *ss's deposit for spending your time and energy making the knife for them in the first place. Afterall, isn't that the purpose of the deposit? I say you were right in what you did, but you should keep that deposit. I'm sorry that you got treated that way, no one should get away with that sort of behavior.

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Gotta go with Bob on that one- it seem to me that HE backed out of the deal not you. However, it begs the question of whether you want to have anything from people like that in your life. Chances are the answer is "no" and you'll be better able to sleep at night. Fret not. Get a written contract if you're going to take money up front, though ;) Include a clause that the deposit is only refundable if you're delinquent by like 3 months or something and that the customer is basically purchasing the item when they sign the contract.

 

Oh, and yes it does matter who's selling a knife (or anything). To use an extreme example: If I found the knife that was perfect for everything that I needed it to do and it was being sold for an awesome price, but I found out that the maker is a Klansman or something then I'd have to pass. Do I think that everyone who may be interested in my blades or other metalwork would be comfortable buying from me if they found out I'm Pagan? No. But I know there are folks who will be more willing to buy because THEY are ;) You just gotta find your market.

 

Are you posting your stuff on this forum? I'd like to see it.

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I think you reacted to the situation in the best way you could have! For every 1 insecure idiot out there who is rude to someone without reason, there are at least 10 awesome people who are positive and care about the work you do. Not to mention the good Lord above who loves you know matter what lifestyle or appearance you may have!!! :)

 

Keep at it. don't let rude people get in your way!!! ;)

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I agree with the preious posts- you did the right thing. I would keep the deposit as well. Here's how you get your small measure of revenge- you post pics of your work so we can all see what a moron he was for backing out of your deal.

 

Dave Armour

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I work retail. I deal with LOTS of pinheads, as well as many good people. In instances where I find I have polar opposition to someone, it's easiest and best for me to cut off all contact -- and that includes any money that might have changed hands. This for two reasons, and in this order of importance for me:

1- Having to deal with someone that I am at moral, personal, or other subjective odds with almost never pays off for me in the long run. Understanding is a two way street, and if I'm the only party interested in seeking understanding, we'll never see eye to eye, and I'll suffer for it.

2- Not all money is good money, and sometimes that 'bad' money costs too much in the long run.

 

You made the right decision. Some people are just too dumb to be reached, and prejudices are rarely overcome. Keep your honor and integrity and move on. I think this quote is attributed to John Wayne, and I love it: "Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid."

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I think you made the right choices, especially in returning the deposit. That way there is not the slightest chance of repercussions. Believe me, anyone capable of the crassness demonstrated wouldn't hesitate to kick up a kerfuffle about THAT, even though you were entirely within your rights to keep it. Now, you have the moral high ground, and he looks like a putz.

Personally, I don't understand prejudice though I've been a target of it most of my life for religious and ethnic "reasons". Since I started acting professionally as a kid, I've been surrounded by all the various folks that bigots hate. That makes for a pretty liberal nature!

When can we see your knives?

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http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=6253

 

There's some nice work. :)

 

One of the best things about working for yourself is that you can tell someone to stuff it.

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i'm with Charles on that... makes good sense

 

sorry to hear bout the trouble... some folks just gotta grow up abit...

 

G

 

 

Gotta add an echo! Idiots... Can't live with 'em, and it's illegal to put them out of your misery. ;)

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:)

thanks for the support guys.

 

you know when you get into one of those situations where you know whats right to do, but it doesnt feel all that great? ..

thats how it felt.

 

on one side i have always believed that we are giving birth to a blade in doing this .. so a part of you goes with it .. call it soul, spirit, chi, energy etc ..

and so it really nagged at me when i looked at this twerp - i didnt want him having a piece of me forever ..

 

but then on the other side, once i got home and calmed down a little .. i felt like i was the one who was renegging on the deal .. afterall, what does it really matter if the customer and maker get along?

i promised and agreed to make this man a knife hands were shook and money was exchanged .. but i pulled out of it.

for one part i know its right .. for another, i start to wonder.

 

id of loved to have kept the deposit.. but for one, i couldnt keep the money and not provide anything in return .. and for another .. i really didnt like the idea of having His money ..

i might of gotten cooties or something from it.

 

i will try to start posting more pics of my work.

i would post a pic of the blade i made him, but thats a little difficult.

i couldnt have this blade be 'his' ... and i didnt want to destroy it and let him get the better of me ..

so instead, ive just manipulated the heck out of it ..

ive just got some polishing to do .. but then i will post it up.

:)

 

for all the people who gave their support .. thank you greatly.

like i had said originally, you do not know me .. and yet you have helped me greatly in this situation.

and for those of you who do not like my personal choices, i thank you for keeping quiet.

 

it does make me proud to be among you.

and it feels a lot more secure in being on this board too .. like i have a whole bunch of big brothers looking over my shoulder .. tehehe.

 

i know it might seem like a pathetic little situation .. and it should do for me too .. afterall, when i was growing up i called myself worse things than this guy did ..

but i guess when you are so used to dealing with great people in this industry, it bugs me more when i get some pillock like this come out of nowhere.

and i hate feeling like ive done wrong to a customer.

 

thanks again for your support ..

i appreciate each and every one of the replies

^_^

 

Dee.

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DEE-- You don't have to have anybodys approval on the private part of your life.

 

Just assume that everybody is cool with your work, and don't worry about the adverse ones you will encounter. There will always be a few that are not wise enough to be politicly correct. It is your choice as whom you want to sell. After making the comment that was made he released you from your verbal/handshake contract.

 

Keep on making knives and selling them.

 

chuck

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Dee,

I have to agree with what the others have already said you did the right thing. We would like to think that as far as rights have come since the 60's that these types of people would have gone the way of the dodo. Unfortunately there is still lots of hate in this world. When you finish the blade put it in The Knives for Sale forum. I'm sure it'll sell quickly.

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I agree with the others here.

Personal life shouldn't really have bearing on business life.

If you make a top notch product it shouldn't matter too much on what you choose to do. Except I agree with Kristopher on the Klansman part, wouldn't be buying from someone like that. People that propagate hate I'd steer clear of.

I remember seeing one of the knives that you had made, actually the one Jol posted, and I agree it was pretty awesome, and thought it was pretty cool to have another female bladesmith on board.

 

I also wanna go into work for myself so I can do what Jol said about telling others to stuff it without being fired! =P

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I agree with the others here.

Personal life shouldn't really have bearing on business life.

If you make a top notch product it shouldn't matter too much on what you choose to do. Except I agree with Kristopher on the Klansman part, wouldn't be buying from someone like that. People that propagate hate I'd steer clear of.

I remember seeing one of the knives that you had made, actually the one Jol posted, and I agree it was pretty awesome, and thought it was pretty cool to have another female bladesmith on board.

 

I also wanna go into work for myself so I can do what Jol said about telling others to stuff it without being fired! =P

I think there'd be a few customers in shock if they knew which 'smiths were gay or bi. Personally, I didn't have a problem sharing house space or living on a destroyer with anyone regardless of what their preferences were. I think you did right there too.

However, the last time I was on a 6-month NATO, not one stoker grabbed my butt. Makes a guy feel old before his time... :P

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Nothing is more despicable than racism and prejudice. You made the right thing when you gave him his dirty money!

In my country one of the worst way to offend someone is to say something like "I could buy and sell you!" trowing his money on the soil (and smiling, if you can). You was even to gentle...

Don't be discouraged from people like this.

Edited by Giuseppe Maresca
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Dee, Sorry to hear that happened to you, Everyone has a right to their opinions and you have the right to choose who you sell to. I beleive you did the right thing but how you went about the situation including giving the money back, i myself would starve before I eat S###T from anyone. Good on ya for standing for your convictions no matter what others opinions are. Cowboy up or sit in the truck!

Edited by Romey
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Dee - Speaking As someone who hang's with an *EXTREMELY* diverse circle of friends, and is a card-carrying weirdo, You have My support and respect for how you handled that situation, You did it with class. Good job.

 

as for buying the perfect knife, to ME, personally, yes the maker would matter. I Myself would like to know the person I'm buying from is someone I wouldnt mind hangin' out with normally. If they're a total jaggoff, and I didnt 100% NEED said knife of theirs, I'd go to someone else who's cooler and settle for "Just fine for My needs" instead of perfect ...however, not everyone may feel this way.

 

all in all, I'd say that he did you a favor by being blatant and shooting his mouth off like a fool'. By doin' that, he letcha know all you needed to know about him, right then, right there. Don't let em' phase you , There's cooler people to waste your time and energy on out there

Edited by Brett Josef Schmidthuber
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