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My First Bowie


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Bob I am very glad to here you say that as I have had this sinking feeling in my gut not pun intended. Now I need to heat treat tomorrow and do the final touches to the handle and pin it. The sheath is done so I should be on time for Friday. And I still have no way of marking my dang knives, I tell myself to go the shop and buy some and I forget.

 

I will buy some tomorrow for sure.

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The gut hook actually came out nice, I was going to suggest a little additional tiny blade that was nothing but a guthook and like a ring to put finger through, that would go on the sheath also, but you did a good job of adding it.

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Guys I really appriciate your input on this one. As I hated it when I used to design websites and a customer would change things at the end and try to get away with crap like that and now I see it happening here except for one thing. That is how things go some times and people can change their minds quickly based on a non professional opinion instead of asking the one who is doing the work.

 

Again thanks for the input, I am going to heat treat this morning so wish me luck. I will post my results later today.

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Well I heated it and I treated it and the blade cracked, I am not sure where I went wrong but none the less the blade cracked at the ricasso, so I reworked a new blade via stock removal as I need to have this done asap. I am not a happy camper at all. Good thing I understand that this will happen in not so good settings, it was overcast and drizzling today maybe that played a factor in all this.

 

Any way I am using 1095, to which I am more comfortable with than the 5160, which was wonderful under the hammer. Oh well the 1095 will work well.

 

Any thoughts on possible factors that may have lead to the cracking of the blade. I did use oil maybe it was to hot, I mean it was cold today so everything felt hot.

 

Any how input greatly desired.

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Well I heated it and I treated it and the blade cracked, I am not sure where I went wrong but none the less the blade cracked at the ricasso, so I reworked a new blade via stock removal as I need to have this done asap. I am not a happy camper at all. Good thing I understand that this will happen in not so good settings, it was overcast and drizzling today maybe that played a factor in all this.

 

Any way I am using 1095, to which I am more comfortable with than the 5160, which was wonderful under the hammer. Oh well the 1095 will work well.

 

Any thoughts on possible factors that may have lead to the cracking of the blade. I did use oil maybe it was to hot, I mean it was cold today so everything felt hot.

 

Any how input greatly desired.

Hmmm I'm no mastersmith so I wouldn't know but maybe if you posted some pictures of the crack people would know.BTW sorry I feel bad that a knife looking that cool cracked.

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My nickel's worth:

My guess would be a "too square" tansition from the blade to ricasso. I leave my transitions a little sloppy after forging and use a round file, half round file and bastard file to make the transitions and tang.

 

Did you do a full quench or edge quench? Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never had a blade crack with an edge quench. I normalize once before I go to work with files, two or three times after file work and then edge quench in olive oil. If the knife is small, I'll slow cool the blade in a can of ashes with a bar of 1/2x1/2 that's been preheated. I've had 5160 and 1095 air harden on me. In ash it usually takes no less than 8 hours to cool. A big knife like this I would cool on its own.

 

Good work on the first knife's gut hook... I have to admit I was skeptical

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Also make sure scratches from sanding run parallel to the blade.

Not sure how a big a difference it can make, but it's what I read, and it's what I do. I usually sand up to at least around 220 or so before quench.

 

But like Kristopher said, it might have been too square a transition, not sure. Would be neat to see the cracked blade if possible.

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The original blade looks great. You did a great job.

Sorry to hear it didn't make it. Cracking 5160 isn't easy it's usually pretty forgiving in the quench. Can you take us through your HT process; annealing, type of quenchent, edge or whole blade, draw temp etc?

Edited by Adlai Stein
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Well the first thing that I did was was heat to critical, then I let it set until cool.

 

I repeated this twice. Second I made sure the edge was thick enough.

 

And I did not do an edge quench as the gut hook presented a few factors that I did not figure in when I first started the knife.

 

So edge quench was out.

 

So I decided to to do a partial submerge into the oil, about a third of the blade was submerged.

 

I also after looking this morning, into my quench tank had a lot of water settled in it. I did not see this or better yet I did not pay attention to the quench tank before I started to heat it.

 

So right there is where I think I made my mistake. As the part of the blade that cracked was the part closes to the surface which is where the water the was. This is only a guess but I feel that it is the cause.

 

So lesson learned, I plan to go to Farm and Tractor to buy a watering trough, the small one which is the right size for quenching, and it comes with a lid and a water heater, for about $100. It is also all metal which is good not home made like mine which was prone to leaks. Any way I hope this answers your questions.

 

Oh I did not have the grind marks were not parallel the were vertical and were around 60 grit.

 

As for the tang I had a nice round transition, I learned from an earlier blade and the natural consiquence for that. All in all I learned a valuable lesson be patient with 5160. I have another bar and I plan to make another knife just to learn how to heat treat.

 

So thanks for all the input guys you have shown me some new ideas.

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That Stinks... All that work and pow. I don't start the handle and such until after HT just because of that. Someone correct me if I am wrong but 5160 is deep hardening because of the Chromium. I keep a lid on my quench oil to protect it from water. I think Adlai is right, 2 quench mediums did it. BTW i like edge quenching 5160. Show us the damagen blade also. I would like to hear the feedback from the more expierenced around here.

Thanks,

Chuck

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John, sorry to hear that it cracked on you. I tend to agree that it was that you had water in the quench tank. I'm fairly certain that any 5160 quenched in water would crack. Mac seems to have the best explaination as to why it happened where it did.

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John, sorry to hear that it cracked on you. I tend to agree that it was that you had water in the quench tank. I'm fairly certain that any 5160 quenched in water would crack. Mac seems to have the best explaination as to why it happened where it did.

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Hey just seen the gut hook - that looks GREAT you did a good job working it in.

Hate to hear about the crack , Show Us The Blade That Cracked -we can help.

 

Did you heat up the oil 150deg.????? I know some dont , but it will harden with less shock

How wuch water U talkin in the oil , quart- teaspoon . I bet it wasnt that much and would have been spread out very thin on top the oil.

 

U say heated to critical - maybe U went a little to hot? To hot at quench put loads of stress on a blade like pulling the edge down .

 

How about forging at to low a temp.?? That will crack 5160 at quench Ive done it

 

My bet is cold forging & cold quench oil

 

Shows us the blade that cracked , how did the crack run?

 

I feel for ya

Ive done it myself

As long as you learn its a good thing

Ron

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I'm kinda of wondering if the 60 grit perpindicular grind lines couldn't have also been a factor along with the water, I guess it would depend on how it cracked.

 

From what I've gathered the reasons to keep the grind lines parallel on the quench is to keep from having the small grind grooves causing stress risers.

 

I had just read here on the forum to go to about 220 before quenching, sounded like some go higher, and to keep the scratches parallel.

 

So it's what I've done. Only blades I cracked were some of my first ones and that's because I thought a brine quench would be a good idea. Haha...the blade made from the same steel into water didn't crack. Probably a medium carbon steel being mower blades.

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Well guys I will post a picture of the blade tomorrow some time as my work schedule is hectic and I am working a double shift tomorrow so it will be late when I get a picture up of the blade so please be patient, I think you guys will see the nice big crack.

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"Oh I did not have the grind marks were not parallel the were vertical and were around 60 grit."

 

I re read I guess I missed it - the vertical 60grt. marks is a No No , to be safe 220 grt. running with the blade

 

After 60 grt. take a good file and draw file with out gaulling get -everthing running with the blade.

Then hand sand up to 220 .

I havent used a grinder for about 2 years this is the last blade Ive hardened and tempered

hand sand up to 220 grt.

knife2.jpg

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still working on it, have to buy some belts for the grinder. Though I have been practicing my draw filing while I am waiting until tuesday to go and buy some belts. I will post some picts soon on the progress of the blade.

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when pre heating oil for quenching i have gotten higher rockwell readings from my steel that doesnt sugjest that its easyer on the steel than room temp to me?

Could be

I think the reason to heat the oil is to make it more wet and not having like a vapor around the blade.

Like uneven cooling

I know I have warped and cracked more in room temp oil than heated oil I wonder why?

Maybe someone can clear this up for me?

Ron

Edited by Ron Hicks
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