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1084 Test Blade


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This is a little blade I forged from 1/4" x 1" 1084. I wanted to try water quenching the 1084 before I went ahead and tried it with my large blade I'm working on. That would be a lot of work to throw down the drain.

 

I left coarse file marks on the upper portion of the blade and only polished the lower part. I also stamped it, but it is kind of hard to see it with the file marks there.

 

1084testblade.jpg

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This is a little blade I forged from 1/4" x 1" 1084. I wanted to try water quenching the 1084 before I went ahead and tried it with my large blade I'm working on. That would be a lot of work to throw down the drain.

 

I left coarse file marks on the upper portion of the blade and only polished the lower part. I also stamped it, but it is kind of hard to see it with the file marks there.

 

 

So, is this one a test blade all the way? You plan to bend it to test your HT? Details man! Details!

 

:)

 

-d

Edited by deker
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So, is this one a test blade all the way? You plan to bend it to test your HT? Details man! Details!

 

:)

 

-d

 

 

:unsure:

 

I'm afriad not. This was a blade to test water quenching 1084 so I don't ruin my big knife I'm working on. This one took significantly less time to both forge and to file. ^_^

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:unsure:

 

I'm afriad not. This was a blade to test water quenching 1084 so I don't ruin my big knife I'm working on. This one took significantly less time to both forge and to file. ^_^

 

All the more reason to test it to destruction! :D I plan to start making some destructive test knives out of W1 soon just to make sure I've got my head screwed on right as far as HT goes.

 

But to echo other folks sentiments. Why water quench 1084? I can see doing it for a hypo-eutectoid steel like 1050, but 1084 is right there for a good, fast oil. Why risk it?

 

-d

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I mentioned to Wayne Goddard I was getting interested again with water quenches. He suggested an oil/water quench. I gave it a try with 8 or 9 blades and none cracked or warped. I still did an interrupted quench. Just haven't got the balls to go all the way in the water. I went in the oil/water for a count of 2 and then into warm oil the rest of the way. With the oil/water quench put about 1/4" of oil on the water surface. The thin layer of oil takes away a lot of the shock. Oil/water was about 120 degrees.

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Guy - I did 3 seconds in and 3 seconds out then back into warm water.

 

Loyd - I can't wait either :P

 

Don and Rob - the last time I tried oil with 1084, I didn't get it to harden the way I wanted. I'm going to give it a try, if it doesn't work on the larger blade, I'll go with oil. But there is a reason I haven't drilled the handle or made the guard just yet ;) I'm going to heat a large chunck of steel and dump that in the water to warm it up before I quench.

Edited by Bob Ouellette
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Don and Rob - the last time I tried oil with 1084, I didn't get it to harden the way I wanted. I'm going to give it a try, if it doesn't work on the larger blade, I'll go with oil. But there is a reason I haven't drilled the handle or made the guard just yet ;) I'm going to heat a large chunck of steel and dump that in the water to warm it up before I quench.

 

I've been doing pretty well with 1084 and oil so far. Just make sure that the oil is warm enough. If you don't have a thermometer to find 140-160F, just get it to a little too hot to stick a finger into. Think really hot hot tub + a few degrees. If you've been quenching in cold oil that may be why you're not getting them to full hardness. Also, don't forget that there may be a layer of decarb you have to get through after quench to find the real hard steel.

 

-d

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Rob, the other knife hardened, but it didn't harden very much of the blade, only about 1/4" from the edge.

 

Ray, good to hear that you haven't had any problems with 1084.

 

I do plan to do an interrupted quench. But this project gets pushed back by one that will be making me money ;) I'm going to be working on a set of masonry chisels with a guy from school tomorrow.

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Rob, the other knife hardened, but it didn't harden very much of the blade, only about 1/4" from the edge.

 

This may be pure conjecture on my part, but I'd venture a guess that the thinner cross section of the edge was able to cool effectively with enough speed (1084 needs to go below 1000F in under 1 second if i recall correctly), but the larger thermal mass of the rest of the blade, combined with the slower cooling effect of cold oil, may be the culprit. Either way. I'm curious to see how that big one turns out.

 

-d

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Thanks for the post Bob.

I've been using 1084 recently & haven't been satisfied with the hardness of an oil quench.

Been using 1/2 motor oil & 1/2 trans fluid. maybe too heavy or not hot enough.

Going to try out the oil/water quench.

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You guys need to try a real quench oil from Brownell's, K&G, Heatbath, etc. 1084 gets screaming hard for me quenched in oil. Also some 1084 may be 1080 with carbon as low as .70%, this stuff needs a little more heat. 1084 with it's high manganese does not like a water quench but the oil over water sounds interesting, may have to try that one day with some W2 or W1.

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You guys need to try a real quench oil

 

 

I agree! Specific quenching oils produce consistent effects. I HT'd some 1084 using an interrupted quench with Brownell's Tough Quench at 150 degrees with great results. Tough Quench, if I'm not mistaken, is just within usable specs for 1084 and 1095. I need to get my hands on some Parks, though.

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Here is what works for me. I use 1095 & 1050 only. Some 440C if needed, different story there.

 

Water: Big plastic tub of plain tap water. I have heated it, boiled it, cooled, all the same. What ever the shop temp is, the tub is.

 

Oil: vegetable oil that I get at COSTCO, 5 gallon pail of it.

 

I have found that the shape of the blade, de-stressing, and even heating is much more important. I have been in the shops of some of the worlds finest Japanese sword smiths and they all have a wooded trough full of clean water.

 

I have recently been trying to achieve very destictive hamons without clay. Photo enclosed. This was done with no clay, 1095. Does anyone want the details??

 

Best, Jim

Kiridashi_2.jpg

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You guys need to try a real quench oil from Brownell's, K&G, Heatbath, etc. 1084 gets screaming hard for me quenched in oil. Also some 1084 may be 1080 with carbon as low as .70%, this stuff needs a little more heat. 1084 with it's high manganese does not like a water quench but the oil over water sounds interesting, may have to try that one day with some W2 or W1.

 

Don, Wayne told me that was an old blacksmithing trick with the oil/water. The oil I used was Texaco Type "A". I wasn't sure how thick the oil layer was until the water froze because the oil looks just like water. I tried the water quench the way Jesus does with 3 blades except I didn't have time to warm the water up. 2 or the 3 blades had micro cracks. The ones where your wishing its a hair on the blade and then you turn the blade over and you see the same thing.

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hey bob, i like that little knife its got a great shape. I noticed that it has a curved tang. how do you intend to put a handle on that. I really like curved handles but I havent found a really nice way to put a handle on a curved tang yet. some imput on that would be a real help thanks jeff

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hey bob, i like that little knife its got a great shape. I noticed that it has a curved tang. how do you intend to put a handle on that. I really like curved handles but I havent found a really nice way to put a handle on a curved tang yet. some imput on that would be a real help thanks jeff

 

 

Thanks Jeff. I haven't quite decided just how I'm going to construct the handle for this one. I will most likely drill two angled holes into the center of a block of wood and use a bent round file to open it up a little more or burn the tang through the opening. I want to get the final design done before I do that though. :rolleyes:

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I got the handle roughed out sorta. I drilled two slightly undersized holes right next to each other coming in from both ends. After that I burned the tang through, dunking the piece in water to stop the hole from burning bigger than I need it.

 

Here's a picture of the progress and a drawing.

 

1084testknife-2.jpg

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