Jump to content

Recommended Posts

ok so here is a drawing of a knife i would like to make but only once my skills are sufficent to do it justice (and to make sure it WILL NOT break for ANY reason as i hope he will carry and use this blade so it could be a life or death deal, i want to make a fighter for a buddy who is in the canadian infantry, somthing that i can be proud to give him...i kind of liked the design of a knife i saw in one of my knife books from WW2 and changed it a bit to be what i like. i was also wondering if anybody could tell me if soldiers are given a military spec knife and are even alowed to carry personal blades? also where is the blade carried? is it a personal thing or just standard on the belt. here is the design, i would like to do it out of twisted damascus with hamon kind of like some of the stuff don hansen has posted in show and tell latly...

 

Camboknife.jpg

 

so yea, basicly, the guard out of the same billit of damascus with a ebony handle and possibly a but cap with hidden tang that goes allthe way through again but cap out of the same billit.

 

what im looking for is ANY comments on this design please feel free to rip it apart, i thought the S guard would be good to protect the hand and also on the back side to possibly catch another knife and twist it out of the opponents grasp. with the clip i want it to have a sharp point but still be strong. one of the things i can see being a problem is grip on the handle when wet, any solutions come to mind?

 

also a question about the sheath...I was thinking it would be a cool idea not to have the traditional fastner at the mouth of the sheath and instead try to find some type of magnet that could be put in the sheath to keep it in the sheath....this would allow the weapon to be drawn easily and quickly while staying in the sheath better than traditional methods...

 

when im good enough to make this blade it will probably be the blade i think of as my "masterpiece" ok, iv been thinking about this knife to much and will stop writing so you guys can tell me what needs to be fixed here!

 

oh yea...blade length anywhere between 6-7 inches with aprox 4 inches of handle + the guard and butt cap

 

Guy

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guy,

I can't speak for the Canadian military but I just got back from Iraq and the policy for US soldiers and Airmen is personal knives are allowed and it's up to the particular soldier where they carry them. I saw a lot of blades carried on the chest of their body armor and a few on a utility belt.

 

As far as what is issued, some units in the spec ops side are issued knives but I was only issued a Gerber multi-tool. I'm in the Air Force so I don't know if the Army is issued anything different but I worked with hundreds of soldiers and I don't remember seeing too many with knives.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim thanks for the reply, i guess the best thing would be for me to contact someone from the recruiting office or something and ask them about it when i get back to canada

 

thanks

 

Guy

Link to post
Share on other sites

fast is the keyword for military knives. I would rethink the sweeping guards. You want the end user to be able to grab the knife, pull it out of the sheath and insert into someting warm and squishy in as little time as possible. Now, add the time it takes for him/her to work around a large guard. Guards afford an opportunity for a skilled knife user to trap the guarded knife and possibly disarm the person using it. Do a quick google search for knives that have been issued to military personnell for hand to hand and you'll see little to no guards.

 

That's a good design for a hunting knife that has a "spec-ops-tech" look to it, though :)

Edited by Kristopher Skelton
Link to post
Share on other sites

alrighty thanks kristopher thats exactly the kinda of stuff i was looking for and luc thanks for the complement! so yea, i took another crack at it, here is what i did this time, i really like the blade shape so i tried to keep that pretty much the same but ditched the big guards and also changed the handle shape a bit for what i think will be a better grip. the knife i like is the R1 military classic knive like this one

 

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http...l%3Dfi%26sa%3DG

 

and then mine again

IMGP1519.jpg

 

ill keep the design of the other and probably still make it, just as a personal knife or gift/sell it when i feel my blades are up to it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From a military perspective, I think the sheath and ergonomics play into the design more than anything else. Do a search on body armor and you'll see that the body armor we wear has little folds sewed into them where we clip stuff. If you make a sheath that can clip to two of those folds it will secure the knife and allow the end user to draw it without having to worry about it getting caught or tied up. I agree with Kristopher that speed is key. I had a ton of stuff clipped to my body armor, not to mention the gear I wore on top of it. If I had a knife clipped to my chest I needed one that wasn't going to get caught up on the various straps and slings I had to carry.

 

The blade looks good though. Very typical of what I saw.

Link to post
Share on other sites

sam: thanks for the encuragment....i would really like to do it in twisted damascus once my skills are up to it, i would probably do some similar blades in other steel to get used to forging the shape because so far i have only made scandinavian knives and havnt tried anything bigger then maybe 6"x1.5" wide max...so it will be a bit different getting the shape. D2....im pretty new to bladesmithing/metalurgy but that should give me a pretty good hamon shouldnt it? or is that W2 that gives good hamon?

 

Jim: for the sheath i was thinking about doing somthing with a magnet to keep the knife in its sheath instead of the conventional strap over the guard that i see on hunting knives ect. i think a magnet would let the knife be drawn faster and also it would not make a difference how it was placed on the body i.e. inverted. instead of the normal belt loop i had also thought of using some sort of metal clip, the only place i can think of seeing them right now is on cell phone holders...they have a metal clip to attach them to a belt or w/e you need, i know they are used in other ways but i just cant remember where else iv seen them. in regards to getting caught up in other equipment what is your opinion on the guard that i have now, i would like to keep some sort of guard but would be open to a suggestion to a different shape or style thanks for the chipping in your opinion im new to this and designing a blade for this use i want to make sure it will work well and effectivly.

 

thanks for the comments guys!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The best (and most effective) fighting knives have a blade with its point on center, a fully sharpened false edge or double edge, a full and distally tapered tang, a long enough handle to allow a cross palm fencing grip, and a "neutral handle" anatomically designed for maximum purchase. Most have guards, although many are too large, and designed to snag. :rolleyes:

 

I would leave the finger ridges out, as you wouldn't have a neutral handle. Being that the knife will be custom made, you can design the handle ergonomics well so that you have an excellent purchase. Use a full tang design, but distally taper it for better weight distribution.

 

I would curve the guard downward, make it a bit smaller, and slightly increase its thickness. The buttcap can have the same thickness, and its edges smooth "like a bar of soap". You'd probably want to hot blue the blade too. You might want to ad a lanyard tube, although I wouldn't persobnally use a lanyard, as it tends to get in the way, and can become snagged with other gear. The lanyard hole is nice visually...

 

Here's a nice page showing various military fighting knives in a private collection; Randall knives are prominently featured:

 

http://www.militaryfightingknives.com/collection.html

 

In any event, you'll have a beautiful and very functional knife when you finish your project...

 

Best wishes:

 

Dan

Edited by Dan Walters
Link to post
Share on other sites

well being that i am pretty new to this game i was wondering if you could explain what a "cross palm fencing grip" is, i havnt served any time in the military and have not been making knives for very long (i chose the name 'youngbuck' for a reason haha) sorry for my ignorence, also distal taper is getting bigger towards the heel of the handle correct? and last not but not least doesnt hot blueing the blade make the blade too soft to retain good edge holding ability? i would like to differentialy harden this knife probably using clay so i can keep the false edge hard as well

 

back to the drawing board! its a good thing i asked about my design before i decided for sure what i wanted to make...im sure it still would have been a good knife but not the best knife for its purpose....will post up my new sketch soon!

 

thanks

 

Guy

Link to post
Share on other sites

The cross palm grip is a grip technique in which you can "choke up" on the handle which would necessitate a longer handle.

 

The distal tang taper in the handle would thin out toward the buttcap. Some makers even drill the tang to remove weight and improve balance, depending on the type of knife and desired balance. The tang area is purposely left softer than the blade so it would tend to bend instead of snap.

 

The bluing does not approach the temperature required to alter the heat treat.

 

I'm sure the experts can answer the questions better than I can... :)

 

Nice knife -- fighters are one of my favorites along with khukuris.

Link to post
Share on other sites

well Dan....here are two more, im not sure if im liking the lines though....they just dont quite flow as well i dont think. i tried bringing the point down to about the middle of the knife then changing up the handle on both, im undecided but now at least i have 4 knives to make!

 

ok, so i dont know how these pictures will work, im attaching them instead of uploading them to my photobucket but the first one (i think) i like better of the 2 but would be concerned about the size of the handle...i dont exactly have small hands and neither does my friend though his are smaller. the second one im just not really liking the lines its got...but maybe it'll grow on me, ill have to think about the last 3 iv got on this thread when the time comes to make it

 

IMGP1530.jpg

 

IMGP1532.jpg

 

uploading them direct left the pics WAY to big so these are from my photobucket (yotawheeler) i have a few other knives in there if your interested among other stuff though....

Edited by youngbuck
Link to post
Share on other sites

I like your original design the best! The point is close enough to center, the lines are very fluid, and the handle is fine. If I wanted a guard on that knife, I'd personally make it much smaller, maybe 3 mm thick, and have the tips of the guard turn downward. A pommel is optional...

 

You have a gift as far as designing fighters goes. If I had the ability to make them, I'd have all sorts of variations. Take a look at some of the forumites' fighters, including Don Fogg's. I'm already mentally designing my next fighter. :)

Edited by Dan Walters
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think you should wait till you "get good enough" I think you should make ten of them ........... by the time you get to the tenth one you will be alot better to judge" what and how to do".......... just dive in with both feet and go for it......... do in steel what you have been doing in you drawings......practice.......... looks like you are on the right path........and mostly have fun.........

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the encuragment Richard, right now i dont have access to the materials to dive in all the way, im in Finland right now and i dont have a source of stock big enough to do somthing like that or really even know where i could find it here...when i get home ill build a forge and jump into it though. right now im having fun making puukko and plus their kinda umm prejudice against the bigger blades here haha, unless its a lappi knife which is kinda like a machete. the blade is DEFANITLY on my to do list...the only problem is the friend i have been thinking of making this for is chompen at the bit for me to get home and build a forge so i can teach him how to do it! would doing some smaller drop points be similar in forging technique but on a smaller scale?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...