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Geoff Keyes

Process Pictures (was Heat Treating)

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I thought I'd post a series of process pictures, I've been doing these as part of an update to my website, but folks here might be interested.

 

STF1.jpg

Starting with 1 x 1/4 5160, with an untouched bar for scale. Top one clipped, bottom forged point.

 

STF2.jpg

About 3 or 4 heats later, the blades are outlined, but no bevels yet.

 

STF3.jpg

Another couple of heats, the bevels are pretty much done.

 

STF4.jpg

Setting the ricasso and finishing the bevels, about 2 heats later.

 

STF5.jpg

Starting the tangs, I use the fuller and can do this in one heat.

 

STF6.jpg

Cut free from the bar, I could leave them, but I like to do the tangs without the bar in the way.

 

STF7.jpg

First heat, the powerhammer really moves some metal.

 

STF8.jpg

Second heat, just about done.

 

STF9.jpg

Just a bit of hand work to finish. the tang.

 

STF10.jpg

Both tangs done.

 

STF11.jpg

Three normalize cycles and an overnight cool down in vermiculite, then 48 hours in the vinegar and some wire brush work to remove the scale.

 

STF12.jpg

Profiled, flat ground (more or less) and ready for the finer work.

 

STF13.jpg

I missed some pictures here, but the blanks have had the shoulders and plunge cuts done, and have been ground to about a nickels thickness on the edge and taken to a 220 finish. Then they have been normalized three more times, heat treated, and tempered at 450F for 4 hours, three times (so that makes three temper cycles over 36 hours, what with cool down in between).

 

After this they get ground almost to sharp at 60 grit, then down to 400 on the grinder. Then they go to hand finish, usually to 600 grit and then a hand buff. Then guards and handles. I'll try to be better about getting pics on those steps as I go.

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Geoff

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Haha!

 

 

I love progress pics like these! They're so usefull for begginers like me. I've always wondered how you guys forge to shape those hunters. Thank you very much for sharing. Please keep posting up to the polishing and handle making stage.

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Nice series Geoff. I moved it over to hot work and pinned it. Thanks.

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Very cool, I like seeing things like this.

Now between the first and second picture, where the profile was forged out, were the bars flipped over? You had said the bevels hadn't been begun, so don't think it'd have raised the tip that much since they weren't forged yet.

 

Definitely continue it =]

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Now between the first and second picture, where the profile was forged out, were the bars flipped over? You had said the bevels hadn't been begun, so don't think it'd have raised the tip that much since they weren't forged yet.

 

Actually all I've done between the first and second pictures is form the basic shape and set most of the distal taper. When I begin to draw the edges on something like these part of every heat is spent evening the spines up, so even as the edge is drawn out the tip doesn't rise much, unless that's what I'm after. But you are right, I've flipped the bars over.

 

Do you set the ricasso across bar stock ?

 

I have a tool, kind of like Rays top and bottom fuller, except that it's a top only. It's a bar with a piece of square stock welded to the underside. It fits into a holder that fits the hardy hole. I also have one with a piece of round bar as the tool face, for forging choils and finger notches. Two things I like about them, first, you only need two hands, rather than three (or the infamous crotch vice :blink: ), second, you don't deform the spines much, so there is less recovery time and effort. I'll shoot some pictures tomorrow and post them, along with the next process pics.

 

Thanks for all the kind words,

 

Geoff

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Here are the tools I mentioned above. First is my version of Rays version of the top-n-bottom fuller.

Fuller2.jpg

 

Here are two third hand tools I made. You could do what these do with hand held fullers and a helper or the crotch vice, but since I do these operations all the time, I made these. The first one has a round tool face, the second one has a square tool face. It's all mild steel, just stuff in my junk pile. The tails on them make it easy to open them up without putting the hammer down and the long necks put the tool face over the sweet spot on the anvil.

Fuller1.jpg

Fuller3.jpg

 

Here are the latest process pics, not too much difference, but it's about 40 minutes work each. They are 60 grit ground and nearly sharp. By the time I get through the 100 grit grind they will be raggedy sharp and pretty much ready to hand finish, though I usually go to 400 on the belt grinder.

Hunter226.jpg

 

I'm going to be getting some stuff ready for a blackpowder show in a couple of weeks, so I'm going to let this thread sit until after that, but I'll post some pics of that stuff as I go.

 

Geoff

Edited by Geoff Keyes

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Thanks for the answer Geoff. I forged 2 tonight and set the ricasso across a piece of bar stock to try it. It worked OK. I like the tools you show. I have thought about something like that and will have to make some as time permits.

Thanks again,

chuck

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I'm back working on this this group (now down to 7, but coming along nicely).

 

So here is what I've done since the last pictures. The two pieces have been ground on the belt sander to 400 grit. Then I took them to my finish shop (which right now is my living room, that way I get to work, watch some TV, and spend some time with my wife) and hand sanded starting at 220 up to 320. For the hand sanding I use a piece of micarta with some leather glued to the sides and I wrap the paper around this. I also have a couple of nook-and-cranny tools for getting into the plunges and other trouble spots. I stopped at 320 because they get banged up in the next processes, so there isn't much point in taking it further now.

 

Next I cut, slot, and fit the blanks for the guards. I use Dykem or something like it to mark my lines on the surface, scribe them with a fine point, and drill one or more undersized holes. Then I got to the mill and mill out the rest of the material, still undersized. If I didn't have the mill, then I'd do this step with needle files. After the guards are close to size, then I start filling to fit. This takes anywhere from 10 minutes (if I'm very lucky) up to an hour or more. It depends on how good you are at making the mating surfaces really square and even. Which leads us to the next picture.

 

 

stf14.jpg

 

You are looking at the guards from the mating side (facing the blade) the back side has been relieved a bit. That way you don't have to remove the full thickness of the guard during the fitting. Glue, epoxy, JB Weld, or what have you will fill the back side when you fit the handle.

 

I did recently learn a new trick for getting a tight, zero clearance fit on the guard. After I get the blank to seat against the shoulders, I often have gaps along the long sides, or worse, along the top and bottom. I made a tiny punch, like a small flatblade screwdriver, with a rounded edge. With a light hammer I punch a series of small depressions along the sides of the hole. This drifts the edges in. Then I do a try fit. Once it's close, I grind off the surface and try it again. Often the edge of the hole will hump up where the fit is too close, I grind these off and try again. If you weren't too far out, 10-15 thousands, one or two cycles of this will give a nice clean fit.

 

After I get the guards fitted, I choose and fit the handle blanks. Since most of my work are through tangs, or half tangs like these, it's a matter of drilling out the hole and getting the block to seat against the guard. The top one is Box Elder burl, the bottom one I think is Ipe, it's a very tight, finely swirled grain, dark pink when cut. It's another one of those pieces of someone else's throwaway.

 

I cut the handles oversized in all dimensions and then work them down to size before the final fitting.

 

stf15.jpg

 

BTW, the bottom piece, which I'm calling my Hot Rod, was a booger to fit and to grind. The racy angles on the blade and plunge cuts put my knuckles at risk on every pass. Plus the fit on the guard took twice as long as usual, all of the cuts are angled, getting them to match was HARD! (boo hoo).

 

If anyone is interested in my finishing tools, let me know and I'll shoot some pics of those too.

 

Geoff

Edited by Geoff Keyes

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Please give into any and all impulses to share photo's

great thread!!!!!!!!!!!

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OK, here are some pics of some of my finishing tools. First are my nook-and-cranny tools. The top one is half a hockey puck, ground to shape. I wrap a small piece of sand paper around it and use it to get into tight areas. I believe that the idea came from Don Fogg. I also have several smaller ones made from small pieces of puck, with various end shapes. The second tool is a piece of ebony. I use it for sanding and for scraping glue drips, it's hard enough to pop the glue off, but not hard enough to mar steel or brass.

 

tools1.jpg

 

The next pic is my sanding stick. It's a piece of micarta about 1/4" by 1" by 10" with leather glued to both sides. The leather helps give a nice smooth finish. I find the micarta has just enough texture to leave marks in the finish. It needs to be long enough to let me use the full face of half a sheet of sand paper and still keep my fingers away from the edge. I just wrap a half sheet around the stick, then strip off each inch or so as it quits biting.

 

tools2.jpg

 

This is my guard seating tool. It's also made of micarta, but wood works too. It fits over the tang of a knife and lets me tap the guard into place, without leaving marks.

 

tools3.jpg

 

Geoff

Edited by Geoff Keyes

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Cool pics, neat seeing threads like this.

I'm gonna have to keep the little punch idea in mind as I occasionally get little gaps.

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Hi Geoff,

 

Could you shoot a photo of the tool and how you apply it to fit the guard opeing to the tang. You refer to have long gaps and I am trying to vision how you use this tool to get it corrected.

I can get very tight fit on rectangular tangs but when there is an angular tang which usually means these a bevel involved. I always have a gap.

It would be a great help.

 

Thank you, GT

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Great thread Geoff!

 

After I saw your post about a blast from the past, I went back and checked the date of the original post!

 

Posted 26 February 2007 - 06:56 PM

 

Hey its still a great thread today, so at least you are still relevant!

Edited by C Craft

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Thanks for this thread! Great process pic's!

Dennis

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