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glass as flux?


G.Lamontagne
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ok, i was asking my teacher at school about making a damascus billit just to kind of see if i actually could do it and he said i couldnt because we had no borax or even glass to use as flux...has anybody here tried using glass as flux? i think it would work possibly because people use it for making crucible steel but....anybody here tried it?

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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i've tried some crushed glass.. on mild iron at a high heat... it kinda worked... but lots of it goobered off into the forge and blocked up my air grate..... spent a good bit, chipping it out

 

you can use " twenty mules borax " .. its a laundry detergent... you can get at walmart...

 

 

what about using borosilicate glass..... like pyrex and such... .. that may work if crushed up finely... ???

 

 

still i'd go buy a box of 20 mules..... its proven to work ;)

 

 

Greg ;)

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yea, im not 100% sure what they have in the laundry isle here, i might go snoop around a bit today, and walmart is kind of out..unless you can convince them to expand to finland...keep in mind the entire countries population is probably about the same as seattle (theres 5M people here). i might try the glass thing, i was more curious because i had never heard of it being used as flux other then in crucible steel. but if i at least have some borax or glass for flux i could ask about it when i go make knives also...i dont have my forge so i go to a school with a forge every week...see if they mind flux flying around..hope not

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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i find my anhydrous borax by the pharmacist ....and into a craft and art shop ...

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from the pharmacist? where would i find it there (like what section/use)? also what is it used for in the craft/art shops? these stores would be easier to find it in as i know where a few of those stores are and my finnish isnt so good that i can ask and explain what im looking for...hehe, yea...

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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There is a smith selling anhydrous borax on ebay.

 

You can cook down 20 mule team borax if you want to.

 

I watched Bob Patrick weld mild steel with silica flour (basiaclly pulverized white sand) he got it from a potters supply house.

 

One of my old timey Blacksmiths used ground green glass from a coke bottle mixed with white sand.

If God told you his plans, you wouldn't believe it anyway.

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i find the borax here in Flanders, Belgium by my pharmacist ...she delivers a lot of chemical products as acids, borax ....I have to show my ID for some ....

by the art and craft shop they are selling many products for etching, painting, sculpture, pottery ....

where are you living in finland ?

I was there 3 years ago !!! :):):)

greetz,

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Jacques, im living in Lappeenranta on the eastern side of finland....its about 30 k from the russian border, do you know if the aptekke (pharmasist) would have it in finland?...i cant seem to think of any real craft stores here...most of the craft stuff is found at either the book store or theres one or 2 other craft stores but im pretty sure neither would carry it here. where about were you in finland?

 

or if i get real desperate i could allways just smash a bottle, grind 'er down to about powder consistancy and use that....

Edited by G.Lamontagne

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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you don't need any fluw at all to make damascus I went on a coruse before i knew anything and the bloke teaching us never used any flux at all I'm not sure it's as good for the steel as he brought it up till you were just seeing the first sparks. We all did it his way and it worked. This was all done in a coke forge I don't know if that changes things. But it is a lot easier with borax as it lowers the welding temperature.

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im with jeff on that one....steel should have flux, im just reading a book thats pretty intersting (the art of blacksmithing) and it mentioned the fact that there was no need to flux wrought but its needed for steel, another book went so far as to say that the steel that sparked from heating to much should be cut off and thrown out...who is right im not sure as im just a bigginner but im sure my welds will not be the greatest in any case when i start making damascus....might as well get all the help i can get.

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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I'm surprised that you can get things hot enough in Finland's winter to weld !! :rolleyes: The reason for throwing out steel that sparks a lot is that the steel becomes "burned" that is oxygen diffuses into the grain boundaries resulting in brittle steel.

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haha, well luckily im forging inside either at school or at a knife course i go to in the evenings...and plus its warmed up alot if the past week or so....now its been around -5 (considerably better then -15 or 20 which is what it usually is)

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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Hi!

 

Terve!

 

So if you still need borax here is the place to get it! http://www.sateenkaarivarit.fi/

 

Its in Tampere. I could sent you borax too but....do you need it SAP :) if i send it it goes to next week...you kwon the postoffice....they dont dilivery weekends....it suks!

 

Do Not by it in pharmasist it is lab stuff and coast all most astronomical amout of euros ;)

 

But i think in Lappeenranta knife course is somebody who ave borax too...or am i wrong?

 

Niko

Edited by Niko Hynninen
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terve!

 

well, im not exactly desperate for borax, i had wanted to try making a billit of damascus, not like i have to fill an order or something but the teacher at ammatti koulu who knows how to make it didnt have any flux and it was my last day with that teacher...ill still have access to a forge twice a week now with my knife course and at ammatti koulu...i dont think anybody at my knife course would have it....its pretty bush league knife making...no normalizing or soaking blades (i just learned about that stuff here) ect i dont think anybody would have it, the only damascus i have seen there is some that a guy bought from brisa out of ...Turku i think. their all really nice and cool guys and im learning from them but i think their metalurgy and finer points of knife making might be a bit rusty...

 

its probably a good thing my finnish isnt the greatest then because i went and looked at the pharmasist and couldnt find it (not to say that it wasnt there) if i had i probably would have bought some....

 

if you wouldnt mind sending me some that would be awesome, i dont know how much i would need or how much it costs...i could dig up some smaller bits of steel to make into a billit if i had some flux to weld it up with...let me know how much you would want for it/how much it costs and maybe we can figure something out. thanks for the offer!

 

kiitos!

 

Guy

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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Hi Guy!

 

Terve terve!

 

Years a go i found supplier for borax here in Finlad...the price was verry low.

I think i was all ready exposed to some chemicals becoure i buy it all most 50 kg... :wacko:

 

So i think i dont have to buy borax on my live time agane :lol:

 

Any ways if you send PM i whill send borax, given adders.

I dont ask anyting at it, if you just pay the coasts of posting.

 

How much you need? Would 2-3kg be ok amount?

 

 

Niko

 

PS If you what, but PM in Finnish.

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Nikko kiitos! se tuli postissa tannan ja yrritän damasti tiistaina! lulen lisää sitten riitta mutta mutta perempi lisää sitten ei riita

 

alrighty, i now have flux! any advice before i give this a shot on tuesday? what i know to do...

 

-heat billit red hot

-sprinkle flux over billit

-heat yellow but NOT sparkling

-hit lightly to set welds then beat on it till its twice the length, cut repeat...

 

sound about right? my billit will be a mix of old files some steel with around .8 C (i think) and im not sure what else...not the best for contrast but its what i have on hand...also there is a large horizontal band saw at the school...if i were to mix the filings into my flux will this make the welding easier...the saw uses lubricant so they wouldnt be totaly clean when they are first put on the billit...yes, no?

 

thanks again Niko!

 

Guy

formerly youngbuck...i now have a name!

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