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wvo forge done!


Archie Zietman

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Hello.

A while back i was discussing the oil forge plan on a thread, and it's done. Everything is put together, I just need to let the castable lid and floor dry, then I'm good to go. I'll take some pictures now, (if I can find a camera)

Merry Being,

Archie :D

"I can kill you with my brain..."

__River Tam

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WELL HOW"S IT WORK!>!>>!?~??~?~

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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It looks very good Archie, the gravity feed and all that, i cannot wait to see how well it works!

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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I'll just add that I did a very crude one of these a while ago for test/experiment purposes. I simply built it from a large maple syrup bucket and lined it with adobe. Good lord! The simple raw BTU-s that an oil forge can put out are incredible, and to tell you the truth they are not all that mysterious. They're simple! Try it! If you can cram air in at a consistent rate (electric) and control it, and do the same with gravity fed oil (I used filtered veggie), and have a way to preheat the forge to the vaporization temp of oil (I just stuffed an inch of charcoal into the bottom)... well, it works!

The trick is that normal kaowool type stuff won't work. Gotta use castable or firebrick. The less porous the better, I think... and perhaps having the oil drip onto a metal plate is a good idea. Also, I think the fire created is pretty far past the operating temp. of kaowool. After the initial experiment, I have always intended to make a more permanent and usable version, but there is always money and priorities for it.

I think if someone smarter than me can come up with a good system of using an electric pump to create a bit more repeatability... it would easily replace propane. Much safer and cheaper, but roughly the same working properties. The trick is finding a pump with a low enough flow rate and one that can handle something very viscous. Any ideas? I found, using a gravity feed, that there was a constant fiddling with the oil valve.

How's it going, archie?

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I built a few venturi injection systems for veggie oil this summer, tons of heat but a little loud. I'm planning on working on a blower driven oil drip system this winter.

 

Do you think the variation in oil flow is due to changing height of oil in the tank or is there another issue? You could use a two tank system with float to keep one tank "topped off" at the same level.

 

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The variation is a few variables, I think. The first is irregularity in the oil itself (recycled veggie for me) and can't be helped without good filtration. I don't think that different batches of oil I've gotten have had exactly the same viscosity, so you compensate for that a LITTLE bit.

The other thing is how much oil is in the tank, and a two chamber system would work well if you can logistically figure it out. I had something like an I.V. drip type thing in mind, but that would have it's own problems (two valves to dial in perfectly).

The problem that I've found with the things is that it's not like propane... if you dial in propane to run rich it simply burns outside the forge... but oil will puddle up in the bottom. Getting the air/oil flow rate balanced seems a little less forgiving, and that ratio changes based on the temperature you're trying to reach. It certainly seems like the problem to work out is how to get a repeatable system that you can leave alone. I had thought about an electric pump and blower, both running with speed controls that could be set as a "memory" in the circuit. If you could, say, establish one circuit for pre-heat, and another for forging and have the two circuits connected to a switch, you could theoretically set them once and then return to them every time you forged instead of finding the balance every time. It's not that big of a deal, and it is over-engineering something that's pretty simple, but when you think about actually establishing a system that would coax people away from increasingly expensive propane, it would be good to see something worked out that allows oil to work with the convenience of propane. I have a lot of hope for the technology, but at the moment see it a a step back in terms of the "be forging in five minutes," appliance-type convenience. I have not yet seen a system, especially not a production one, that most people who aren't particularly interested in the forge ITSELF would be willing to spend a lot of time with. I have a feeling that some smart and experimental brains could work one out... nothing seems to complicated about it... and THEN we might see a lot more of it. The safety factor alone (I'm scared of a lot of explosive, pressurized things... don't know why) is enough for me to hope that it gets worked out. The convenience of propane with the safety of charcoal... ahhh... to a better tomorrow.

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Having just written that, it dawned on me that it might be impossible to get a reducing fire in an oil forge, and if you can the vertical forge is the only system that would work. You can't put in more fuel than will burn like propane. If it's just right, however, in a vertical forge you shouldn't have any oxygen left over at the top. Perhaps more depth to diameter (compared to propane) would be a necessary design change... you do have plenty of extra BTU's to play with, after all.

Also, I didn't mention that I think kaowool would be fine at the top of the forge... and probably perfect, but I'm curious to see what happens when it's at the bottom. Lemme know archie. and HURRY UP! I'm excited and getting impatient!

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Filtration could be accomplished in the upper tank of the two tank system. I would think as long as you had a large enough tank of oil the viscosity would stay the same throughout the run so the valve would only need to be adjusted after filling the tank up with more fuel.

 

 

The problem that I've found with the things is that it's not like propane... if you dial in propane to run rich it simply burns outside the forge... but oil will puddle up in the bottom.
it dawned on me that it might be impossible to get a reducing fire in an oil forge

 

If the puddled oil was hot enough it should boil/vaporize and burn as its carried in the combustion gases out of the forge, like a grease fire in a deep fryer. I've put some oil in a pop can before and put it in a camp fire, it started to boil and flames came out the hole as the oil vaporized and exited the can.

 

I think using a venturi to inject/vaporize the oil can provide more predictable control of the flame but the ones I've built/used were loud and required an air compressor to run. I'm building a new one right now I hope will be quieter and more efficient.

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I got a reducing flame with my prototype. Having the fuel tank on a string to pull up and down for more gravity-pressureyness would help with the fuel flow issue, as would warm well filtered oil. The variable hight and therefore fuel flow rate would even out some issues (it's what I'm doing)

We have all the week before I can get to firing her up, so no use being impatient. (This week is going to be very very long....)

"I can kill you with my brain..."

__River Tam

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Ey'up!

I just put a second coating of Mizzou slip on the forge, cuz even though my college apps are done, I still have to work and home-work this weekend (sigh) so I neatened it up a bit. I also got 5 gallons of "Highest Quality Clear Liquid Vegetable Shortening" from my writing teacher, so now have a stockpile of about 7-8 gallons to be burned.

I am very optimistic about it.

Merry being,

Archie :lol:

"I can kill you with my brain..."

__River Tam

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Backyardmetalcasting.com has some good info on waste vegetable oil burners.

I had a strange thought the other day.

If I were locked in a room with a copy of myself, i wouldn't like me very much.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just used it. Started it with a big wood fire, then turned on the oil feed. I can get yellow heats very quickly, work any size of stock, several different pieces at a time, it's great! The only problem is that its' pretty darn loud, but hopefully I can find a way around the noise.

"I can kill you with my brain..."

__River Tam

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There is a reason Industry uses them:D. ARCHIE YOU MUST GET PICURES PLEASE. Sounds like a heck of a forge, wouldbe a cool project.

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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I will def. get pictures, tomorrow I'm serving at a homeless shelter, but on Wednesday I'll run it again, with a camera. :lol:

 

 

Bless you man!

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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The forge deffinantly looks good. I've been thinking about making a melting furnace sometime in the futire and the pictures of your forge kind of brought things together on how one is made.

 

:ph34r: Bye-the bye, I won't say anything about the naked manikin in the background if you don't ;) .

 

Doug Lester

HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!!

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The forge deffinantly looks good. I've been thinking about making a melting furnace sometime in the futire and the pictures of your forge kind of brought things together on how one is made.

 

:ph34r: Bye-the bye, I won't say anything about the naked manikin in the background if you don't ;) .

 

Doug Lester

Doug, don't you have YOUR mannequin yet?

How can you get any knives forged without that mandatory piece of equipment?

Next thing, you'll tell us you don't have a wombat, either.

"I'm not anti-gun. I'm pro-knife." Molly Ivins

NT Limpin' Cat Prokopp

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OKay, here's pikkies! Not that great because of the light, but here they are anyhow. Uses a gallon or so in 3 hours on full blast. Today I got a pair of candlesticks an s hook and a small drive hook for my sewing scissors done. Coulda been a lot more efficient with a pair of bending forks, (next project). With small pieces (anything up to 1/2 inch square) I can work several pieces at once and never have to wait around for things to heat up. I keep it at full air and half open oil for the most part.

Merry being,

Archie :D

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Edited by Archie Zietman

"I can kill you with my brain..."

__River Tam

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