Jump to content

Problem with grinder build!


Recommended Posts

HI Fred,

No prob Fred, take your time, I know how busy kids can keep ya ;)

 

As for your dilema, I was going to suggest moving the pivot hole but you already have the radius set so that pretty much rules out moving the pivot location. When I made my platten I drilled the pivot hole, then centered the pivot hole on my rotary table and milled the slot. I think my pivot and slot are about 1.750" on center. I wouldnt worry about taking the holes out to 1/2", 3/8" bolts should work just fine.

 

The steel is the cheapest part of the whole project, if you have to you could always get another piece and start it over. I know its a bummer to go through all that and have to start over, but its a bigger bummer if you sink more time into it and its a pain to adjust or you aren't happy with it.

 

Brad

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 149
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Brad,

I wish that I had access to a rotary table. I had planned to drill and tap a hole in a piece of steel held in the milling machine vise that cleared the jaws. Then I would move the table over the required amount, one inch, and use a vertical movement of the quill to start cutting between the holes. then loosen the platten, rotate it a little and tighten it down again and repeat until done.

If I don't like it, I can always start again. :angry: I will just need to get some more material. I do want it to be as close to perfect as possible.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,

Fred

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fred,

Where theres a will theres a way. It sounds like your milling idea will work fine to me just take a little longer than a rotary table. Don't get in a hurry and try to manually push it thru the arc with your hand, them endmills are nasty with skin.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Brad

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brad,

Thanks for the words of caution and advice. I already have a couple of short fingers. I was tired and in a hurry, a bad combination!

I was pricing an 8" H/V rotary table at Enco. With shipping it will be just over $300. This gives me a good excuse to order something I have been wanting for a long time. I will try to find one around here, maybe Craigs list.

I am going to make a plug for my 3/8th center hole and put a very fine center drill mark in the center. Then I will see if I have the room to make another radius. I will try for something around a 1 1/2" to 2" radius. Then my first hole pattern will have been done to lighten the Platen. ;)

Or at least I can tell people that. :lol:

Regards,

Fred

PS My sons team beat the other team 11 to 0 today, very embarrassing for them. two more games to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Guys, I got the platen 95% done. I want to tweak it a little to make everything work together.

Here are some photos.

Platen with hole pattern

DSCN1196.jpg

P with 1 1/2" wheel and 3" MT instead of contact wheel:>)

DSCN1198.jpg

Range of motion 1

DSCN1202.jpg

ROM 2

DSCN1203.jpg

Arm

DSCN1204.jpg

Right Front

DSCN1205.jpg

Left Back

DSCN1200.jpg

Platen assembly

DSCN1201.jpg

 

I think that it is starting to resemble a grinder. I still need a VFD, some wheels and some steel before it will be running. Soon very soon!!

Thanks to Ken, Art, Brad and all that have given me advice and help.

Regards,

Fred

Edited by Pelallito1
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's looking good, Fred. Your platen arrangement is pretty slick. If you keep adding steel to the project it might sink through the floor if you're not careful!

 

I see that your tension spring bolts are offset from each other about the same amount mine are. Doesn't affect the function but sometimes it makes me a little crazy because they don't line up. I also see you got fancy with your spring capture bolts. When I built mine I had a couple of 1/2" socket head screws on hand and the heads exactly fit inside my tension spring. I popped them in to test the arrangement and it worked so well that I just left well enough alone.

 

Are you still with us, Art?

 

K

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken,

It does tick me off that the spring bolts don't line up. But after reading your comment, I will probably leave them alone. I have considered plugging and redrilling and tapping for a new location.I made my version of the spring capture bolt copying what I saw on either Brad Andersons machine or the KMG website. I am not really sure where I saw it.

I need the steel for the base plate. I was thinking of two pieces. One 7"by 18" and the other about 18" by 20". Both would be 1/4" or 5/16th" thick. I already have material for the tree and will probably work on that this weekend.

I tried to buy some soft firebrick yesterday without any luck. Even though the company told me they had some on the phone, when I got there they only had the hard. That only goes to 1000 degrees. That was a wasted trip.:(

Thanks for the kind words and help.

Fred

Edited by Pelallito1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Fred,

 

If you haven't bought the wheels for your platen yet then check this site http://www.usaknifemaker.com/store/index.p...products_id=917

 

Tracy is offering a really good deal on 3" and 4" contact wheels for $44. They are polyurethane but as long as you don't overheat them they will work great. The 6" polyurethane wheel I bought from Sunray is still holding up pretty well.

 

Whatcha gonna do with the firebrick? I just got through heat treating 4 knives up in the shop. It was 90 degrees in there BEFORE I fired up the forge so I did the trick as quick as I could then got back to the air conditioned house.

 

K

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken,

I will look at them right now.

I want to build this next. http://www.britishblades.com/home/articles...;showarticle=31

I want an oven. I want to make it deep enough for at least an 18" blade.

Regards,

Fred

They look very interesting. I will get a 3" from him and the platen will be usable. I might connect a 1 HP motor that I have here tempoarily to the clone while I work on tuning it.

Thanks again,

Fred

Edited by Pelallito1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...
That's looking good, Fred. Your platen arrangement is pretty slick. If you keep adding steel to the project it might sink through the floor if you're not careful!

 

I see that your tension spring bolts are offset from each other about the same amount mine are. Doesn't affect the function but sometimes it makes me a little crazy because they don't line up. I also see you got fancy with your spring capture bolts. When I built mine I had a couple of 1/2" socket head screws on hand and the heads exactly fit inside my tension spring. I popped them in to test the arrangement and it worked so well that I just left well enough alone.

 

Are you still with us, Art?

 

K

 

Ken,

I'm back with you. Took some time off to figure on things. I've been drilling holes and taping. If I never tap another hole it will be too soon.

 

Fred,

Looking good. -Art

Link to post
Share on other sites
Ken,

I'm back with you. Took some time off to figure on things. I've been drilling holes and taping. If I never tap another hole it will be too soon.

 

Fred,

Looking good. -Art

 

 

Art,

 

Welcome back!

 

Hurry up with the grinder because you need to get started on your mini-hydraulic press project! The press is easier to build than the grinder and best of all you don't have to drill and tap a bucket load of holes. There's a moderate amount of welding though.

 

Building the grinder is only the beginning of the fun. When you get it finished you get to figure out how to use it. That took me longer than building the thing.

 

K

Link to post
Share on other sites
Art,

 

Welcome back!

 

Hurry up with the grinder because you need to get started on your mini-hydraulic press project! The press is easier to build than the grinder and best of all you don't have to drill and tap a bucket load of holes. There's a moderate amount of welding though.

 

Building the grinder is only the beginning of the fun. When you get it finished you get to figure out how to use it. That took me longer than building the thing.

 

K

 

You're a bad influence on me. I'm half way through the grinder and already excited about building a mini-press. Do you have any pictures of the press I can drool over? (My son-in-law is a professional welder.) He makes my ranch welding look like poop. That really was a beautiful blade you showed me. I'm still thinking about it. You should post it in show and tell. -Art

Link to post
Share on other sites
You're a bad influence on me. I'm half way through the grinder and already excited about building a mini-press. Do you have any pictures of the press I can drool over? (My son-in-law is a professional welder.) He makes my ranch welding look like poop. That really was a beautiful blade you showed me. I'm still thinking about it. You should post it in show and tell. -Art

 

 

Here ya go, Art. a link to a link to the pictures you requested http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?sh...9932&st=100

 

I put pictures of the still unfinished blade in Show and Tell a couple of months ago. They are in there somewhere.

 

K

Link to post
Share on other sites
Here ya go, Art. a link to a link to the pictures you requested http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?sh...9932&st=100

 

I put pictures of the still unfinished blade in Show and Tell a couple of months ago. They are in there somewhere.

 

K

 

Thanks Ken,

 

Now that you have had a while to work with your press and if you had a chance to do it over again, would you mount the jack above or below the dies? -Art

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish I could blame this on someone else but I just pinged a 1/4-20 tap at the bottom of a 1 inch hole. The is a nub sticking out. Not much, just enough to taunt me but not enough to get a purchase with my pliers. Any suggestions on how to procede. This is my first encounter with this dilemma. Help!

Link to post
Share on other sites
I wish I could blame this on someone else but I just pinged a 1/4-20 tap at the bottom of a 1 inch hole. The is a nub sticking out. Not much, just enough to taunt me but not enough to get a purchase with my pliers. Any suggestions on how to procede. This is my first encounter with this dilemma. Help!

 

 

Art,

 

If you have a really, really steady hand, a good eye, and a cutting torch.....well, maybe not such a good idea.

 

There's a special tool you can get which has four prongs that fit into the lengthwise grooves in the tap. Once you get the prongs worried into place you can back out the tap. At least that's the theory of the thing. Don't know where you could find one or how much it would cost. Probably more than the steel the tap is in.

 

A machine shop equipped with an EDM could probably burn it out for you....which would probably cost more than the steel too.

 

My hillbilly engineering approach would be to put a cutoff disc on my Dremel shaft tool and grind a slot in the end of the thing then use a close fitting screwdriver to see if'n I couldn't worry that tap out of there real gentle like.

 

If none of the above works then cuss and stomp around for awhile. Then cut some more steel and try again.

 

Hope I've helped :P

Link to post
Share on other sites

I broke a tap off in the bottom end of one of the supports, I ended up moving over and redrilling. In the past I have used a high speed burr to drill thru the broken off end of the tap and go at it that way with a easy out.

I still have the die grinder but no burr for it.

PITA

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks Ken,

 

Now that you have had a while to work with your press and if you had a chance to do it over again, would you mount the jack above or below the dies? -Art

 

 

Art,

 

If I did it again I would still mount the jack below the dies. To me it's a simpler arrangement. Falling scale isn't a real big issue because simple shields will keep the jack parts clear. Seems to me that mounting the jack on top leads to unnecessary complication and requires more steel to build. If you want to get more ram return speed you can always add a couple of springs to the bottom anvil. I may yet do that myself.

 

Good luck on the broken tap. I think Sixfooter probably has the best idea so far if the hole is in a place where you can easily redrill. Be careful with the new tap! If it binds don't use a cheater bar to make it move.

 

K

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken, Sixfooter, and LoneRonin,

 

Many good ideas. Thanks for the help. Here's "the rest of the story" as Mr. Harvey would say.

 

I'm near the end of my drilling and tapping marathon and have been using the cheesey little tap handle with the skinny cross bar. It has been tearing up my hand but has enough give that keeps me from over-torqing the tap. It worked well for the 1/4-20 tap but it was time to move on to the 1/2-18 and the little handle wouldn't fit the bigger tap shaft.

 

Sooo I went down to Ace to get a bigger handle. They had a bigger version of the cheesey type I had been using and then there in a glow of light was a big shiney chrome looking monster that was adjustable and knureled. I was like a moth drawn to a flame. It cost me my last Jackson but I couldn't resist.

 

Half way through the 1/2 inch hole I heard a metallic snap. Imediately I could feel my blood starting to thicken. I was outside and even though it was three blankets cold, beads of sweat popped out of my forehead. (Sorry, I just finished a creative writing class last semester.) Anyhow, I checked the tap, no cracks or broken bits could be seen so I forged ahead. Towards the bottom of the hole the tap handle got loose. I looked closer and the adjustable part that held the tap was cracked. I had broken the big monsterous, shiney tap handle. Was this a foreshadowing of doom and gloom?

 

I finished the 1/2 inch hole well enough so I decided to do the last two 1/4-20 on the bottom of the Bearing Mount. (Sixfooter, this is where your story comes in.) I had already done six of the one inch hole taps with the cheesey tap handle and wanted to try the Monster. A little voice kept telling me not to but would I listen? Of course not! Everything went fine until I was near the bottom of the last hole. I pushed a little harder to make sure I bottomed out and then...Snap!

 

It was quite spectacular. I had used so much cutting fluid that I got a face full. Kens' statement of "The most terrifying moments of the build were tapping the deep holes," raced through my mind and I new I was screwed.

 

It's not fatal and I will probably use SixFooter's suggestion of re-drilling and tapping a new hole, but...I want to try LoneRonin's idea just because it might make me feel better to smash that tap. (I know it was my fault).

 

Thanks again guys, and I will report the results of my efforts. -Art

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whacking didn't work. New hole, drill and tap. I'm going to town to return the Monster and get a new cheesey 1/4-20 tap handle. And a new big cheesey handle for my 1/2-18.

 

Merry Christmas, -Art

Edited by Art Lawrence
Link to post
Share on other sites

Art,

 

You are just having way too much fun with your project! What you are going through is just the normal for working with metal. The ratio of OH SH*TS! to AH-HA's! runs about 3:1. You're ahead of the game. I don't think I'll ever get over being goosey about running a thin tap down a deep hole. I've been lucky so far but I'm sure I will snap one sometime in the future. You won't have to worry about busting taps when you start working on the press. Then you can start worrying about welds popping loose under 40.000 pounds of pressure.

 

My USAF flying years taught me that there are two departments which affect all actions, the Department of Fairy Godmothers and the Department of Practical Jokes. Guess which department is in charge 90% of the time.

 

K

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Ken,

 

It helps to have wise men to seek out when danger threatens. How close, or far from the broken tap hole would you go to drill the new hole? Maybe I should ask what is the closest I can drill the new hole.

 

p.s.

I returned the Monster and picked up a 1/4-20 tap, a big cheesey handle and still got four dollars and change in return.

This is better. Oh, the guy at Ace is a retired Navy machinist and he told me about bottom taps, (which they don't sell there or anywhere in town), and about the tap puller that you had mentioned. I'll have to look into that.

 

p.p.s.

I'm very excited about building the mini-press. Lately the arthritis in my right shoulder has been killing me and I have been teaching myself to hammer with my left hand in preparation for the day my right stops working. This press will extend my smithing days for a long time. :D Lookout Hansen W2!

Edited by Art Lawrence
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...