WES Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Don, forgive me if this question is a little off in left field, but along those same lines, have you ever experimented with the concepts of the Golden Mean, or Golden Triangle, as far as how proportion relates to the "look" of your peices, or of any pieces out there as ar as knives go? Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Have you ever experimented with the concepts of the Golden Mean, or Golden Triangle, as far as how proportion relates to the "look" of your peices, or of any pieces out there as ar as knives go? I haven't although it is a great explanation for harmony. Jim Batson has been using it for years as have many others. There are some parts of my mind that don't work as well as others and I have to patch together a work around when it comes to math. The interesting thing is that we can see and hear and feel harmonies, but only as Dick quoted if our chute is open. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Norris Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Don, I have been interested in custom knives for over 25 years and in the last few years I have seen a marked increase in commercialism. It is now possible to buy a pattern welded knife, made in Pakistan, for around $50. A knife that is very well made and almost indistinguishable (to Joe Public) from a custom made knife. Also, the number of people trying their hands at making knives has soared. Recently, I have seen handmade, custom, knives being sold on Ebay for amounts so low that they barely cover the cost of materials. Given these factors and the current state of the economy, what do you see the future being like for beginning makers who are trying to establish a name for themselves and to sell their work for a price they can live with? What advice would you give to someone in this position? Do you think that in our enthusiasm for what we are doing, groups promoting custom knives, such as The Knifemakers Guild and the American Bladesmith Society, have inadverdently created an environment where supply is much greater than demand? I guess, just in general, what do you predict the future will be like for custom knives and knifemakers? ~Bruce~ Edited February 13, 2009 by B. Norris “All work is empty save when there is love, for work is love made visible.” Kahlil Gibran "It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them." - Alfred Adler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Given these factors and the current state of the economy, what do you see the future being like for beginning makers who are trying to establish a name for themselves and to sell their work for a price they can live with? I have no idea what is going to happen with the world economy in a tailspin, it does seem like fury feeding on itself. We have always been canaries in the economy because we depend on purely discretionary money for our incomes. Making a living with your hands is difficult in the best of times, but now we need to be extremely flexible to survive. I visited with Bill Moran when I first got started and was surprised to see that he was taking in sharpening jobs, because you never know. I think one has to ask what are our goals, what are our motivations, why are we doing what we are doing? We have an easier time of it when we are clear about our motives. I know of some young and successful knifemakers who are getting full time jobs because they have families to support and are clear on their priorities. Sometimes you can make life style adjustments to accomodate your passions, but the first step is to really be clear about your goals. Do you think that in our enthusiasm for what we are doing, groups promoting custom knives, such as The Knifemakers Guild and the American Bladesmith Society, have inadverdently created an environment where supply is much greater than demand? There is much more to this craft than business and most are drawn to it because it ignites a passion within us that we did not even know existed. We enjoy the challenge of learning new skills and knowledge. We find community in this brotherhood. Perhaps more importantly we are able to distinquish ourselves through the direct expression of our labor in the clear and unambiguous creation of a real object. A hundred years ago that would not have been much of a feat, but in today's world we are desparate to find such expression. Is the supply of enthusiasm greater than the demand? No, I think quite the contrary that we are in dire need of enthusiasm in this world. We are in dire need of community whose sole purpose is to ignite passion in others and who are willing to freely share hard earned information to make that happen. This is the model for the world that I can get excited about. These knives we make are totally unnecessary, the methods we struggle to learn are completely anachronistic, the passion we feel for what can only be seen as dirty, dangerous and hard labor is absurd, if it were not for the times we live in and now, now they represent something real, something tangible in a world that has lost touch with reality. Whew, got carried away there, but I hope you get the point. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanfowler Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 These knives we make are totally unnecessary, the methods we struggle to learn are completely anachronistic, the passion we feel for what can only be seen as dirty, dangerous and hard labor is absurd, if it were not for the times we live in and now, now they represent something real, something tangible in a world that has lost touch with reality. That is an absolutely fabulous quote, the "passion" is what it's all about President - Georgia Knifemakers Guild ABS Journeyman Smith "Wisdom and experience are built of bricks made from the mud of failure." - Mike Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 What advice would you give to someone in this position? I apologize for not really answering your business question. There is no one answer. Within the knife market you have to find a way to offer value and reach out to different segments of the market. We often get too specialize and ignore whole other groups of collectors because we don't offer anything that they are interested in. 60 Minutes recently included a story on Mike O’Machearley and his struggle to make a living knifemaking. I personally passed on several orders from folks interested in helping him. He later let me know that he was now booked ahead for a year and half. We have to make the effort to let people know what we do and to continually reach out. I have always tried to maintain several income streams, doing ironwork, welding, repair work, sharpening, teaching, selling books and supplies. I also have had to work outside on occasion over the years. In Maine we call it being a woodchuck. Don't compromise your work, honor your word, offer real value based on your place in the market, continually promote yourself and the craft, operate it like a business. I hope this helps, but the consolation is that we are all looking over the edge together now. We will make it through this, it may get rough, but we have what it takes. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Thomas Obach Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Its funny how quiet a room can get.... I think you have an audience ! somehow ...i think people know alot of these things about you ... that your very caring and respectful of the knife community ... maybe i'm off but you can see some of your personality in the knives you make..... and they speak well if you were to create a guild ...1) what do you think would elevate the community... what is missing from the popular knife movement... lastly... why is the sword, what it is ? there are thousands of arms used from the dawn of time... from howitzers to wooden clubs... but the sword follows us ! why... i've puzzled over this alot and i have no answer except that it is.. Even little children know this.... they've seen tazer guns disable bad guys on the news, yet they'll be out in the backwoods carrying a wooden stick ( make believe sword ) searching for ellusive dragons.. I'd like to hear more about your sword ethic... thank you for posting... this is wonderful ! Greg Given these factors and the current state of the economy, what do you see the future being like for beginning makers who are trying to establish a name for themselves and to sell their work for a price they can live with? I have no idea what is going to happen with the world economy in a tailspin, it does seem like fury feeding on itself. We have always been canaries in the economy because we depend on purely discretionary money for our incomes. Making a living with your hands is difficult in the best of times, but now we need to be extremely flexible to survive. I visited with Bill Moran when I first got started and was surprised to see that he was taking in sharpening jobs, because you never know. I think one has to ask what are our goals, what are our motivations, why are we doing what we are doing? We have an easier time of it when we are clear about our motives. I know of some young and successful knifemakers who are getting full time jobs because they have families to support and are clear on their priorities. Sometimes you can make life style adjustments to accomodate your passions, but the first step is to really be clear about your goals. Do you think that in our enthusiasm for what we are doing, groups promoting custom knives, such as The Knifemakers Guild and the American Bladesmith Society, have inadverdently created an environment where supply is much greater than demand? There is much more to this craft than business and most are drawn to it because it ignites a passion within us that we did not even know existed. We enjoy the challenge of learning new skills and knowledge. We find community in this brotherhood. Perhaps more importantly we are able to distinquish ourselves through the direct expression of our labor in the clear and unambiguous creation of a real object. A hundred years ago that would not have been much of a feat, but in today's world we are desparate to find such expression. Is the supply of enthusiasm greater than the demand? No, I think quite the contrary that we are in dire need of enthusiasm in this world. We are in dire need of community whose sole purpose is to ignite passion in others and who are willing to freely share hard earned information to make that happen. This is the model for the world that I can get excited about. These knives we make are totally unnecessary, the methods we struggle to learn are completely anachronistic, the passion we feel for what can only be seen as dirty, dangerous and hard labor is absurd, if it were not for the times we live in and now, now they represent something real, something tangible in a world that has lost touch with reality. Whew, got carried away there, but I hope you get the point. North Shore Forge & Ironworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 if you were to create a guild ...1) what do you think would elevate the community... what is missing from the popular knife movement... One thing that comes to mind is recognition and acceptance by the larger arts and crafts community. We are very much a self contained world and we would benefit from inclusion into the fine crafts community, not only with broader exposure to the public, but also from the recognition of the level of workmanship and artistry within our field. Until now it has largely been ignored despite vigorous efforts to penetrate the wall of resistance. I think it is a shameful abuse of political correctness that borders on censorship. Every major museum in this country features examples of arms and armour and yet our work is never mentioned, rarely exhibited and there is a behind the scenes effort to disallow blade work in modern creative dialog. Even within the blacksmithing community there are road blocks to keep our craft from gaining recognition and acceptance. That we are treated so poorly is a sad testament to the state of the arts in this country. Fortunately we have created our own following and developed excitement among knowledgeable collectors world wide. why is the sword, what it is ? ... Ahhh...the power of symbols and the symbols of power. This is a deep subject and I think we all have to look inside for our own truth. Hollywood has used the sword to enchant us, the vivid images are impressed on our subconscious. From Braveheart to Lord of the Rings, we associate honor, valor, courage and sacrifice with the sword. It a mythic symbol that we respond to in the deepest part of our collective consciousness. Jung and Campbell are required reading here. The interesting thing about making swords however is that they are real power objects. They are not just a symbol of power, a live blade is awesome in the hand. It takes little imagination to realize what true courage it would take to engage in blade to blade combat. It is focused intensity to hold a real sword, to make one is an awesome responsibility. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Price Posted February 15, 2009 Author Share Posted February 15, 2009 I just went back and re-read your answers to my questions, for the umpteenth time. I think you dodged one... your favorite piece you've ever made. I know you said you don't really get attached to your work, but surely there's at least one blade that just made you very satisfied, proud of your craft, etc... could you pick one blade you've made, and tell us more about it, in terms of things you got right, that "spoke" to you? I find it hard to accept there is no such piece in your repitoire, and I'd love to hear your critique of it. The Tidewater Forge Christopher Price, Bladesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 at least one blade that just made you very satisfied, proud of your craft I could pick a dozen and each would have some significance to me in the way they reflected some truth about my life at that time. This blade I called the Midline Crisis Dagger. Completed in the late to mid 90's, this piece flowed from some work with texturing that I was experimenting with at the time. The design flowed from the blade, each line picked up and followed through the handle, themes carried forward, interpreted in different material, colors balanced and appropriate. It had a simplicity of form that framed the complexity of the texture. The opposite side lacked any embellishment and was stark and naked by comparison, shocking even. When I finished this piece I felt like I was finally able to express myself in this medium. I had only one grainy photo of this piece until it resurfaced recently and was photographed by Coop Now, of course, I want to go through several other pieces that affected me which is why I wished to avoid the question to begin with, bad Christopher. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Powning Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 this is wonderful Don. It's so good to see things from your perspective, you have a wonderful way of discarding ideology in your quest for truth. It's always good to see things from a different angle, I find the work can drag you in and cause a loss of perspective sometimes, and to hear others talk and discuss different perspectives breaks you out. hearing your clarity of thought is always very refreshing. Jake Powning Swords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. Norris Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Christopher has reminded me of a question I always wanted to ask. You used to have a picture on your website of a sword, the tag for which was "damsword". Damsword I always wondered if it was an abbreviation for "Damascus sword" or "Damn Sword"! Maybe a little of both? This particular piece strikes me as a very singular piece of work, very different in style and construction from everything else of yours that I've seen. Would you please comment on this piece, from rough concept to finished sword? I would love to have some insight into your thought process while making this sword. Was it a case of deliberately choosing this type of construction or was it built this way because those were the materials or techniques available? ~Bruce~ “All work is empty save when there is love, for work is love made visible.” Kahlil Gibran "It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them." - Alfred Adler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 why is the sword, what it is ? ... Ahhh...the power of symbols and the symbols of power. This is a deep subject and I think we all have to look inside for our own truth. Hollywood has used the sword to enchant us, the vivid images are impressed on our subconscious. From Braveheart to Lord of the Rings, we associate honor, valor, courage and sacrifice with the sword. It a mythic symbol that we respond to in the deepest part of our collective consciousness. Jung and Campbell are required reading here. The interesting thing about making swords however is that they are real power objects. They are not just a symbol of power, a live blade is awesome in the hand. It takes little imagination to realize what true courage it would take to engage in blade to blade combat. It is focused intensity to hold a real sword, to make one is an awesome responsibility. Don you put into words perfectly what I have been searching for the answer for. I like when you say "It is focused intensity to hold a real sword, to make one is an awesome responsibility", a sword is a call back and is an Ancient form of weapon. Even though in modern times it is relegated more as an piece of art due to it's singular purpose as a weapon for which it is no longer used, it is still a weapon and one of the most dangerous in the right or wrong hands. It is an awesome responsibility to bring a weapon like that into the world. Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Damsword Would you please comment on this piece, from rough concept to finished sword? I use to have a picture of an early Greek helmet posted on the wall of my shop. What intrigued me about the helmet was the stylized play between the eyes and the nose piece. I wanted to include that theme in a piece, but it took a long while before I came up with this interpretation. Jimmy Fikes had showed me some examples of early pieces where the blade was riveted to the handle and after making test pieces I became convinced that it was a viable method of construction and so began working on this design. The blade was a reflective or spirit pattern that really caught the light well and shimmered from every angle. I don't remember how many pieces went into this handle, but it was a pile. Each rivet was turned on my Taig lathe and was a nesting rivet with male and female parts. This piece was a long time in the making and I was finally motivated to finish it when the customer threatened to come stay with me until it was completed. I made it way too complicated, but sometimes you learn the hard way. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kelso Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 Hi Don. This whole series has been very interesting. Thanks for the nod earlier. I'm curious what your favorite part(s) of the the process is and why. Thanks. Jim My website and INSTAGRAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Price Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Now, of course, I want to go through several other pieces that affected me which is why I wished to avoid the question to begin with, bad Christopher. Yes, yes, shame on me... but thank you for answering. I do really appreciate it. The Tidewater Forge Christopher Price, Bladesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFogg Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm curious what your favorite part(s) of the the process is and why. Hi Jim, I still enjoy the hot work, forging, heat treating, the most. Steel is my medium and it is as mysterious to me today as when I first started working it. I like the stubborn feel of it under the hammer and how it transforms with the heat. I have worked it long enough now that my mind and body shift into a comfortable self when I start forging again. Hard to describe really, but it is like greeting a part of myself that is old and familiar, a part that only exists when I with my tools, doing the work. It seems as if I am awakening another part of my mind, one that has no interest in the dialog or storyline of life, but rather is intent on the physical interaction with the material and the fire and the tools. It exists in the present moment and when I wander from now, I am immediately reminded that I stray. There are no words, the verbal structure is replaced with tactile sensation. It is visually rich and I see differently because I am giving it my full attention. I am more aware of my body, sensitive to my posture, conscious of the strength and energy that are available to me. It is a place where I can flow. Don Fogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kelso Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Thanks Don. Very well stated. I think anyone reading that can feel the joy you feel in the work. Jim My website and INSTAGRAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Abrera Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 It exists in the present moment and when I wander from now, I am immediately reminded that I stray. There are no words, the verbal structure is replaced with tactile sensation. It is visually rich and I see differently because I am giving it my full attention. I am more aware of my body, sensitive to my posture, conscious of the strength and energy that are available to me. It is a place where I can flow. Woderfully worded Sensei-Don To me this is like mushin as practitioners of the martial arts aspire to through the practice of thier arts. Same place, just a different path getting there. Very much enjoying the read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Abrera Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) double post Edited February 16, 2009 by P.Abrera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Thomas Obach Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 "I think that despite the sinster connotations of the work, what I am ultimately looking for is beauty and that is an intangible, receding horizon, that forever changes as you grow. When I am distracted from this by life, I begin to lose focus and wander until I recognize I am lost and need to get back to what makes me happy. " for me, that is a very interesting and haunting idea... wow... ( i needed to hear that ) also your mention of passion and enthusiasm.... those are very powerful words and you really explained it well... ! ... i wished you had kept going on this subject... I've reread everything several times... and i'm very glad that you took the time to write.... it was illuminating thank you Greg ps.. the sword as a powerful symbol... ( after doing a brief google on the subject... i'm amazed ! ) somehow I still feel that the sword is almost part of mankinds genetic makeup ( i use the word genetic for lack of better word ) .... even though the strict science part of me knows how foolish that sounds... North Shore Forge & Ironworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Clark Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Swords can make even the most rational people react emotionally. Even Spock from Star Trek would be moved by a good sword. There is even a spiritual aspect to them as well, I think. So then there is the physical presence of the blade, the emotional presence of the symbol, and the spiritual presence of the power. All embodied in one inanimate object that will far out live those of us who make them and be a witness to our time in their own way. One can wander far on this path, beware... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Price Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 I want to thank everyone for their questions. This was a deep and insightful interview, and I hope Chris Moss didn't get scared off by the onslaught of curiosity, and is just busy with school. I know I am. Don, we thank you for sharing so much with us. I was edified by your responses and thoughtful opinions of our craft. I look forward to seeing who you interview, and what that conversation unlocks. The Tidewater Forge Christopher Price, Bladesmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Moss Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I want to thank everyone for their questions. This was a deep and insightful interview, and I hope Chris Moss didn't get scared off by the onslaught of curiosity, and is just busy with school. I know I am. Don, we thank you for sharing so much with us. I was edified by your responses and thoughtful opinions of our craft. I look forward to seeing who you interview, and what that conversation unlocks. I enjoyed the questions more than i would have enjoyed my own. i didnt post mainly for fear of scaring other people off. Yall asked better questions than i had. i was also quite edified by the questions and answers and wanted to thank you Don for sharing with us, and cant wait to see who you interview. thanks again so much for sharing your knowledge and insight with us. ~Chris -Knifemaker- http://knifemaker87.googlepages.com/home Hamons are a painting; blades are a canvas, clay is my paint, fire is my brush. the problem is.. i am still painting like Pablo Picasso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hÿllyn Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Don, I know I don't write much around but I wanted to say thanks for sharing your time along with all of what that entails with us. Kindest regards, admiration and respect from me (I'm sure I'm not the only one) Grey hair and alopecia are signs of age, not of wisdom... Rósta að, maðr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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