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Burner Sound


Marco LaMont

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Hey guys, this is my first time posting here but I've been keeping up with the forum for quite some time. I just recently finished my first blown burner (I'll get some pictures up in the near future) and had a question. My burner is capable of making two different type of sounds and from what it looks like, two different types of flames. The first sounds like a hand-held propane torch, just louder. The second, if I modify the air-fuel mix so that it is running rich, Ill get a pop and then a hollow burning sound (a bit like a jet engine in a sewer pipe if you can imagine). I am wondering which of these flames is the optimal one? I don't really see much of a difference in terms of heat output. Below is a link to a quick video/sound of the burner.

I appreciate any help you guys can provide.

 

-Marco

 

Burner Sound

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The hollow burning sounds is not good. It means that the flame is igniting in the pipe and not at the tip. You need to have some sort of burner tip configuration that will make it burn where it is suppose to. It can be as simple as a bell reducer at the tip or nesting pipe.

 

What will happen is that the pipe with begin to heat up and exacerbate the problem.

 

BurnerTip.jpg

Don Fogg

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I do have a flame holder, and that is what I was presuming was happening with the hollow sound as the flame was not quite as prominent. I appreciate your fast response!

 

Flame Holder

 

Also as you can see from the picture the metal is starting to flake, after every use I pull it from the forge and clean the flakes out. I am hoping this is the galvanization coming off and it will eventually stop?

Edited by Marco LaMont
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You SHOULD NOT, I repeat, SHOULD NOT, use galvanized pipe anywhere near a place in your forge that gets hot. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!! Vaporized zinc is poisonous and even a little inhaled is very dangerous. A smith back East DIED a few years ago due to zinc poisoning from heating galvanized pipe.

 

Take your burner apart and replace everything galvanized with black iron. I won't apologize for the rant, if you are using galvanized pipe in a forge you are putting yourself and anyone who enters your space in danger. We don't need to hear about another smith getting hurt or killed, and we don't want to be responsible, even at a distance, for putting people in danger.

 

Geoff Keyes

"The worst day smithing is better than the best day working for someone else."

 

I said that.

 

If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly.

- - -G. K. Chesterton

 

So, just for the record: the fact that it does work still should not be taken as definitive proof that you are not crazy.

 

Grant Sarver

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I appreciate your warning, and no I don't find it to be a rant, zinc fumes are definitely dangerous. The only reason I went with galv is because in regards to the 90degree elbow all I could find locally was galvanized. In preparation for being used in the burner I striped most if not all of the galv off but being an electrochemical coating you cant really get absolutely all off just from scraping/grinding and I figured that the forge's heat would take care of the rest. Since zinc doesn't vaporize until about 1700F I made the assumption that all but the pipe leading into the forge would be alright (I ran the forge for 6 hours straight and the elbow was hot to the touch but only about 700-800F according to infrared thermometer). I've been welding for 4 years and I've welded galv steel a few times and I've had zinc oxide poisoning before (not too much fun) but I had never really heard too many cases of people dying of it. I've always been told just drink some sweet milk and wait it out. But in hearing about this other smith I am DEFINATELY not going to take any chances, Ill make a trip out tomorrow to get some black steel pipe. Thanks.

Edited by Marco LaMont
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If you need to find a bell reducer try www.elliscustomknifeworks.com. I have a blown forge that has a 12" black pipe burner tube connected to the bell reducer. I ran my forge for about 3-4 hours yesterday and the bell reducer stayed cool to the touch. Anything aft of there should be ok for galvanized pipe. Someone told me that you can remove zinc from the pipe with white venigar if you can't find black pipe for the burner tube. If your steel is shedding a lot of scale inside the forge, you're running it with too much air in relation to the LPG. Ideally, you should have very little scale left on the anvil after forging except for when you're at forge welding temperature and then it will probably scale up on your after you remove it from the forge and expose it to ambient air. Your problem may also be that you don't have enough air going into you forge to keep the pressure up. I love my blown burner. It's much more effecient in burning and easy to tune to what I need.

 

Doug Lester

HELP...I'm a twenty year old trapped in the body of an old man!!!

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Another thing that can cause burning back in the pipe is having insulation around the burner head. The tip gets hot and the insulation causes that red heat to travel up the pipe. Once it gets red hot behind the burner tip it will cause early ignition. The cure is to make sure that there is air space around the burner tip. This is important not only for the premature ignition problem, but also to extend the life of the burner itself.

 

The Ellis burners are slid into a burner port and the pipe that makes up the burner port works to keep the flame on the end. The gate valve is an expensive control, but it does work well and is more accurate than controlling the burner with a flap.

Don Fogg

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I need to get me a proper forge built sometime soon.

Mine is pretty much currently stacked firebricks, same setup I'd used for charcoal, but been wanting to build a vertical propane setup. Just need to get around to it. Get with my neighbor again for the piece of pipe and to borrow his welder.

 

I've some pictures of one he'd built from his site and was planning to build something similar to it.

Edited by EdgarFigaro

Beau Erwin

www.ErwinKnives.com

Custom knives

Bcarta Composites

Stabilized Woods

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another thing that will cause burnback is the forge not properly vented. I dunno how big your forge is or how big the openings are.

Preignition can occur wehn the forge is sized to the burner.

If God told you his plans, you wouldn't believe it anyway.

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vinegar will eat off the zinc just soak it over night and you will have steel that can rust up on you just save the vinegar for the next time you cant find what you need in black

Brandon Sawisch bladesmith

 

eagles may soar but weasels don't get sucked in to jet engines

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