Rick_Tatum Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 In Jim Hrisoulas's book "The Complete Bladesmith", he lists a couple of recipes for oil quenches that use regular diesel fuel. I was wondering if anyone has tried bio-diesel mixed with the vegetable oils for a lighter oil quench? Any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sheffield Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 At work (I fix gas stations, and jet fuel systems. Tanks, pumps and what not) we are having trouble with the bio-diesel separating in the tanks. This starts to happen at 40 deg F. The bio part becomes a coagulated mess while all the other stuff floats to the top. However I think it is where the fuel was bought. So IMHO you should be fine to use it if you stir the mix every now and then if it left outside. I hope that helps. My life is like shaving with a razor sharp machete. It's a bit awkward and I feel a sting every now and then, but in the end I'm happy with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bower Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I haven't tried it, but it has occurred to me. It dawned on me a while ago that petro diesel would probably have a lot of good qualities as a quenchant if its flash point weren't so low. Biodiesel has (or can have) a much higher flash point -- at the cost of being somewhat more viscous. Try it and let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Tatum Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) I haven't tried it, but it has occurred to me. It dawned on me a while ago that petro diesel would probably have a lot of good qualities as a quenchant if its flash point weren't so low. Biodiesel has (or can have) a much higher flash point -- at the cost of being somewhat more viscous. Try it and let us know how it goes. My thinking is to make a blend, using bio diesel to lower the viscosity of straight veg oil. At $3.60/gallon it's a heck of alot cheaper than cooking oil! edited to add: The flash point of bio diesel is 300 deg. F, whereas petro diesel is 125 deg. F Edited March 11, 2008 by Rick_Tatum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Shafer Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I am using one of formulas in that book. 1 part diesel fuel, 2 parts trans. fluid, 1 part used motor oil. Haven't used it a lot but it seems to work good. I have some unknown cable that I could not get hard in regular used motor oil so I tried this and it worked. Used it on some 1095 and it worked also. Passed the old file test anyway. No Thor, no hammer. Know Thor, know hammer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bower Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 (edited) Rick, You probably know this, but just to be clear: the biodiesel you can get from the pump is generally B5 or B10, occasionally B20. The number tells you what proportion of the fuel is biodiesel. The remainder is straight petrodiesel. So B10 is 10% biodiesel and 90% petro. That'll make a big difference in your flash point, so just keep it in mind. If you want pure biodiesel (B100) I imagine you'll have to make it yourself, or find a local homebrewer who's willing to sell you a couple gallons. On the other hand, though, you might be able to cut your veggie oil with plain old petrodiesel. But I'm not entirely sure how the combined flash point would work. Does a relatively homogeneous, 50/50 mix of diesel (flash point ca. 125) and canola (flash point ca. 600) give a combined flash point of 360 ish? Or does the diesel just start burning off at 125, leaving the canola behind? I'm not sure.. Edited March 14, 2008 by Matt Bower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Longmire Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Check your local farmers' co-op; mine sells B100 and B20, and will custom mix any blend you want, provided you want more than 100 gallons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Tatum Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Rick, You probably know this, but just to be clear: the biodiesel you can get from the pump is generally B5 or B10, occasionally B20. The number tells you what proportion of the fuel is biodiesel. The remainder is straight petrodiesel. So B10 is 10% biodiesel and 90% petro. That'll make a big difference in your flash point, so just keep it in mind. If you want pure biodiesel (B100) I imagine you'll have to make it yourself, or find a local homebrewer who's willing to sell you a couple gallons. On the other hand, though, you might be able to cut your veggie oil with plain old petrodiesel. But I'm not entirely sure how the combined flash point would work. Does a relatively homogeneous, 50/50 mix of diesel (flash point ca. 125) and canola (flash point ca. 600) give a combined flash point of 360 ish? Or does the diesel just start burning off at 125, leaving the canola behind? I'm not sure.. I have access to b100 fuel. Pretty easy to get in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frankl Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 My thoughts are that you might want to look into quenching oil for your quenching. Nothing against Jim's books, or Wayne's for that matter, but why reinvent the wheel? I've said it before, but using diesel, bacon fat, whatever for quenching is somewhat analogous to using the same stuff in your car's engine or your hydraulic press. Each of these requires certain specific oils, why not use them? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bower Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) I use Park #50, but a lot of people like experimenting with homemade quenchants for, probably, the same reasons that a lot of people will spend hours making tools they could've bought relatively inexpensively. There's a sense of satisfaction in doing things for yourself. It may not make strict economic sense, but there it is. Who am I to question it? In fact to me this whole bladesmithing game is a hobby. So from a purely economic POV, none of it makes any sense. A look at the knives I've made, and the time/money/effort I've invested to produce them, would suggest that I'd be much smarter to spend that time working a part-time job. Then I could take the extra money from that job and use it to buy much, much nicer blades from some of the pros who hang out here. That would make the most economic sense. But it wouldn't be very satisfying. So I continue doing it the hard, expensive way. Edited March 17, 2008 by Matt Bower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Frankl Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Matt, Totally agreed. I wasn't thinking of money, but the best product I could make. Best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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