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Hammer Finish/No No


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Although I don't do a hammer finish on the few blades I have time to make, I do like the way they look on a primative style knife. However Wayne Goddard brings up some interesting points in his article in the new copy of Blade Magazine that I received in the mail yesterday. All you hammer finish smiths out there should give it a read.

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Can you summarize the main points, for those of us who don't get Blade?

 

 

please, many hammerers on this site. i would like to know as well.

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When you get it (Blade Mag.), stand by the mailbox, look at the pictures, then drop it in the bin. I do not know what he said, I will not read knife magazines. They only serve to get a does of angry when I do. And I do not need that, nor does my family.

 

"Probably" it centers around decarburization of the surface. But that is only a guess.

Edited by Howard Clark
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When you get it (Blade Mag.), stand by the mailbox, look at the pictures, then drop it in the bin. I do not know what he said, I will not read knife magazines. They only serve to get a does of angry when I do. And I do not need that, nor does my family.

 

"Probably" it centers around decarburization of the surface. But that is only a guess.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who got tired of magazine content that was limited to purty pitchers and silly, pointless articles.

"I'm not anti-gun. I'm pro-knife." Molly Ivins

NT Limpin' Cat Prokopp

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Edited by Robert Kobayashi
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When you get it (Blade Mag.), stand by the mailbox, look at the pictures, then drop it in the bin. I do not know what he said, I will not read knife magazines. They only serve to get a does of angry when I do. And I do not need that, nor does my family.

 

 

Treat em like a playboy, got it :lol: . I never understood when people said they read those things :rolleyes: .

Edited by Sam Salvati

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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When you get it (Blade Mag.), stand by the mailbox, look at the pictures, then drop it in the bin. I do not know what he said, I will not read knife magazines. They only serve to get a does of angry when I do. And I do not need that, nor does my family.

 

"Probably" it centers around decarburization of the surface. But that is only a guess.

 

YES! well said... sums it up quite good.

 

if just everyone would do the same (buyers, collectors and makers) there would be more "knowledge" and less "strange ideas" around...

 

I have looked at blade mag just a couple of times (it's not really available where I live) - but we do have our share of bad writing, "real-life" concepts made up by "journalists" and ever repeating basically "cloaked advertisment" articles about the same few knifemakers who seem to have a good contact with some of the staff writers of these mags.

 

I for one too - have stopped looking & reading those things quite a while ago as I was just becoming frustrated at the bunch of bollocks written on paper...

FERRUM - Daniel Gentile

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I could care less what editorializing goes on in Blade, but the original poster cited Wayne Goddard as the source of the concern to hammer finishes. I do respect Wayne, and would like to know what he said, if anyone here can provide it.

The Tidewater Forge

Christopher Price, Bladesmith

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As with any publication... we have to deal with advertisement.

There are articles of interest, and some that are not. Maybe they need more contributors for more indept articles. :)

 

I haven't received my lastest magazine yet, but my quess on leaving hammer marks will be something to deal with stress risers.

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Daniel, Quintuple post!

 

 

I don't get blade magazines for two reasons. The first has already been mentioned, they're for collectors rather than makers. The second is that i think they'd distract me from my own work.

I had a strange thought the other day.

If I were locked in a room with a copy of myself, i wouldn't like me very much.

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I could care less what editorializing goes on in Blade, but the original poster cited Wayne Goddard as the source of the concern to hammer finishes. I do respect Wayne, and would like to know what he said, if anyone here can provide it.

 

 

 

Well, I agree with most of you about the magazines. They have way to much bullshit in them and not enough articles by knowledgeable bladesmiths. However, Wayne Goddard has enough experience in the field that what he says should be taken under consideration. I'm not saying he is a knife making god or anything like that. But we should listen and maybe learn from each other as knife makers. Isn't that what this forum is all about.

To get to the point, he was talking about stress risers and making the junction of the tang to the racasso rounder instead of squared. But then he said that any hammer marks left in the blade is also a potential stress riser and may cause cracking during heat treating, and that he has seen knives that have cracked at the hammer marks. And on further inspection of said blades you could see by the discoloration of the area around the inside of the crack that it happened when the blade was heat treated.

This is just something to consider.

 

Tony G

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Edited by Robert Kobayashi
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you could see by the discoloration of the area around the inside of the crack that it happened when the blade was heat treated.

 

If you ask me, discoloration in the cracks means they were there BEFORE heat treating. What steel was he using, old leaf springs? If so, bingo.

 

Wayne is a good guy, but he has opinions like everyone else. That doesn't mean everyone with an opinion is correct all the time, not even me! :lol:

 

I don't buy it, in other words, the theory or the magazine.

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Didn't Goddard say much the same thing in The Wonder of Knifemaking? I definitely recall the point about rounded tang joinings vs squared being in one of his two books.

MacGyver is my patron saint.

 

"There's nothing in the universe cold steel won't cut." -Conan of Cimmeria-

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If you ask me, discoloration in the cracks means they were there BEFORE heat treating. What steel was he using, old leaf springs? If so, bingo.

 

Wayne is a good guy, but he has opinions like everyone else. That doesn't mean everyone with an opinion is correct all the time, not even me! :lol:

 

I don't buy it, in other words, the theory or the magazine.

 

 

 

-_- Well said Alan.

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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I knew the hammer finish guys wouldn't buy it. I said it was something to consider. I didn't say it was the word of God. Anyway, I just thought I could start a little trouble, and maybe get a back and forth conversation going to get a few more opinions on the subject.

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Well that is of course true. I have argued much the same point myself about square corners at the tang and ricasso, and where the plunge cut to start the grind goes. Rounder and polished is better, in terms of mechanical strength. More radius, less stress riser. As a practical matter, there are more important things, and Japanese swords have had square cornered tang notches for a loooong time (a thousand years or so), and that is not usually where they fail, though I am sure it has happened.

 

As for hammer marks making stress risers in heat treating, I suppose maybe that could be true. Seems unlikely to me, and I have made a blade or two, not using the most forgiving and easy of materials and quenches. Can't say that I ever considered that the cause of a crack in the quench though.

 

I like Wayne, he is a good man, and has been making knives a long time. We do have disagreements, but we respect one another, and get along fine. He is worth listening to, even when I do disagree with him. I have learned from him and many others, as do we all.

 

Almost all the time when I crack a blade, it is either a 1086 blade, and the water and clay and radical sori are to blame (I think). Some days I can never figure it out, either. I have also cracked blades made of higher hardenability (alloy) steels by forging on them too cold as the heat was falling. Most of the time it is operator error. (almost all the time, really). :)

 

If I offended anyone by my comments about Blade, well I am sorry, sort of. If you enjoy it, so be it, and I hope you get your money's worth from it. I have issues with them. Like the fact that the editor doesn't deign to spend the time to attend the best knife show in the mid-west when it is in his own back yard in Wisconsin. There are other things as well, but that is the big one that pushes my buttons. The Badger Knife Club hosts a very high quality and successful show every spring, and has done so for 27 years (or maybe 28, not sure). I think that Blade should be there all weekend with a table, and a person. But apparently they do not feel the need to do so. It's a shame, really.

Edited by Howard Clark
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Good points by all. I myself just grind the hammer marks out :D

 

Howard, I know what you mean with Blade mag, we have mutual friends (good makers) who don't get the mag any longer. It's ashame Blade doesn't have a table at the Badger show, their loss. The mag does have some screwed up articles at times, but also has some good ones.

 

Blade is geared towards the collector/buyer and the press I've received there has sold a lot of knives for me. Blade mag is a sales tool (for me anyway) and a very good one :) I will continue to get it, some issues are better than others.

 

The glory days of knife mags (80s-90s) is over, too much corporate money with the big production companies = less custom coverage and less real knife people involved. The net is taking over :ph34r:

Don Hanson lll My Webpage

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Don, with those big hammers and your expert control, your forgings look like they are INCREDIBLY smooth, do you really have much to remove? I would love to see a picture of a blade just as forged, before being touched to a grinder.

Let not the swords of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots

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